Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#441

Post by gammateam » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #259

gammateam wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other two big issues: inadequate income and lack of affordable housing. Bezos is directly responsible for his employees lack of adequate wages, an issue he won't fix. You realize that if Bezos gave all the Amazon employees 'adequate wages' that you would then still be blaming him for inadequate housing? Or at least different people in Seattle would. > No, he is going to build preschools in poor neighborhoods so…

The horror. Setting up lower socioeconomic statuses for long term success. Poor children live with enormous daily stress and chronic lack of adequate nutrition sets up permanent problems that tend to be unreasonable. Children with stunting earn less wages over the course of their lives and have many other intractable problems. There is always some hoop to jump through for the poor as to why adequate money must come s…

I do take you seriously

You came out of the woodworks because Jeff Bezos is doing something with money and the PR engine is masquerading this as a panacea to chronic homelessness. You want the world to know that "something" isn't enough and isn't holistic enough. And I'm right here in the middle saying "huh preschools thats kind of interesting"

I know plenty of people that do things for schools, Jeff Bezos doing things for more schools (or at least on the subject of schooling) at once is nice. I support that. Its not the only thing he might do, not the only thing he has to do, or plans to do, yet it is interesting that he's being held to a separate standard solely from the announcement alone.

If he just said "yo I'm making preschools its gonna be lit", a wild Doreen Michele would have never appeared. But because it was billed as a solution to homelessness and impoverished areas, here comes college educated Doreen Michele to let everyone know its totally wrong and misguided!

Its preschools

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#442

Post by specialist » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

MaybiusStrip wrote: post #250

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

Before you draw conclusions about all homeless people based on the the ones hanging out in Pioneer Square, I challenge YOU to go to a homeless shelter like Mary's place and learn a bit about the people living there. My fiancee is a doctor in the Central District and deals with homeless people every single day. A huge number of them are working families with children who work in the city and can't afford to rent, comm…

Further, homelessness worsens addiction, mental illness, overall health. It becomes a downward spiral.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#443

Post by jimnotgym » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

artursapek wrote: post #432

jimnotgym wrote: post #419

Bezos can keep his donations, I just want Amazon to pay tax like any other business would in the UK, pay employees NI like any other business in the UK, and pay minimum wage like any other business in the UK. It shouldn't be up to the billionaires to choose where to spend money that should be in the hands of national governments and workers. This article for instance shows homeless Amazon warehouse workers living in…

They pay the tax they are legally obligated to. You can't expect any business to pay a penny more than that. It's on the lawmakers to remove the loopholes (which they and their friends probably exploit as well, so good luck with that...)

Please see my reply above. It is alleged that they do not pay the tax that they are legally obliged to. No loophole, just special treatment.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#444

Post by asdkhadsj » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:26 PM UTC

xamuel wrote: post #392

asdkhadsj wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really frustrating when a man makes that much and does so little. Like, I don't think/know if it should be law. I'm not talking about being Robinhood with our taxes or whatever. I don't know any of that. All I know is it's frustrating . Look at all the good Gates is working towards. There's just so much room for people with that much wealth to strive for. Honestly.. I think what's most frustrating is I can't ev…

If I were Bezos, I'd do a lot more for charity. That said, you're making the fallacy of thinking like money is a natural resource we dig up from the ground or something, that Bezos is hoarding. No. Money is just an abstraction of barters and favors owed. Suppose Bezos pays a surgeon $100k to treat a patient. Well, the surgeon could have done it for free. So if Bezos didn't pay the surgeon, who is responsible for the…

That's an interesting viewpoint. Though, I view it more as; if you're starving and I have 10 apples, should I give you an apple? Why shouldn't someone else?

Should the surgeon really do the work for free when 100k to him means a lot; but 100k to Bezos is meaningfully less?

By the same token, if there's someone in front of me who needs help and I can help them with 5 cents? 5 cents is nothing to me, I'd do it in a heartbeat. $10,000 I could also afford, but it would be a considerable risk for my life and long term happiness.

The point I'm getting at, is expectation of helping someone or doing something noble seems to be relative to how much excess you have. Though, another important angle is how likely it is to help someone. I don't give $25 to charitable TV advertisements because I don't trust them. Despite being able to afford $25 to help someone.

So it's definitely complex, but correct me if I'm wrong, but your barter abstraction doesn't feel right to me.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#445

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

gammateam wrote: post #441

DoreenMichele wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The horror. Setting up lower socioeconomic statuses for long term success. Poor children live with enormous daily stress and chronic lack of adequate nutrition sets up permanent problems that tend to be unreasonable. Children with stunting earn less wages over the course of their lives and have many other intractable problems. There is always some hoop to jump through for the poor as to why adequate money must come s…

I do take you seriously You came out of the woodworks because Jeff Bezos is doing something with money and the PR engine is masquerading this as a panacea to chronic homelessness. You want the world to know that "something" isn't enough and isn't holistic enough. And I'm right here in the middle saying "huh preschools thats kind of interesting" I know plenty of people that do things for schools, Jeff Bezos doing thin…

You came out of the woodworks because...

a wild Doreen Michele would have never appeared. But because it was billed as a solution to homelessness and impoverished areas, here comes college educated Doreen Michele to let everyone know its totally wrong and misguided!

That's incredibly dismissive.

For one thing, I'm simply here a lot. I didn't "come out of the woodwork" like some lurker who normally keeps my mouth shut.

For another, I comment on lots of different subjects, not just homelessness. I'm well known for my views on homelessness, but long before that I was a homeschooling parent and Director of Community Life for The TAG Project. It isn't at all unusual for me to comment on education and related subjects.

I'm not a big fan of the idea out there that poor families are helped by good preschool education. One of my sons went to preschool and he really benefited tremendously because he had specific issues I wanted addressed. So I'm well aware that preschool can be a good thing and I would rather see more money spent on preschool than on prisons and there are studies that show that spending more on preschools reduces how much we spend on prisons.

But I would much, much, much rather see parents make enough money that they can make choices like whether or not they want one parent to be home full time. I think we really, seriously undervalue full time parents.

(Please note that I am saying parents, not mothers. I get a lot of BS off of people who like to imagine I mean only mothers should be at home with kids.)

I've thought long and hard about a lot of subjects that happen to intersect here and even studied some of them formally.

I'm also medically handicapped and I happen to spend more time on HN on days when I am short of sleep or not feeling so hot, like today. That is a much, much bigger factor in me leaving multiple comments in this discussion (as well as others) than the topic per se.

Though I will say this comment is evidence that your opening line is probably not entirely disingenuous. You are taking me seriously enough to apparently view me as some kind of threat (to what? I have no clue) and thus feel some need to try to shoot me down personally.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#446

Post by cyborgx7 » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #425

jimnotgym wrote: post #419

Bezos can keep his donations, I just want Amazon to pay tax like any other business would in the UK, pay employees NI like any other business in the UK, and pay minimum wage like any other business in the UK. It shouldn't be up to the billionaires to choose where to spend money that should be in the hands of national governments and workers. This article for instance shows homeless Amazon warehouse workers living in…

> I just want Amazon to pay tax like any other business would in the UK, pay employees NI like any other business in the UK, and pay minimum wage like any other business in the UK I agree with you, but you can't blame Jeff Bezos for UK legislation.

Step 1: Use your wealth to lobby for laws that let you do things that are unethical but increase your profit.

Step 2: Do those things.

Step 3: When people criticise you for unethical behavior, point out you are just following the rules.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#447

Post by cyborgx7 » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:38 PM UTC

CodeSheikh wrote: post #130

I dont't care if this is a PR stint to ward of recent criticism Bezos is getting from Bernie et al but if this fund goes and actually help and make a real life impact on the lives of homeless people, then I am fine and I will hold back my criticism of Amazon. I mean clearly I have not done enough to mitigate homelessness in this country who am I to question others motives trying to solve the same problem?

It's not his money to use this way. He stole it from the workers he underpaid.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#448

Post by WheelsAtLarge » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:38 PM UTC

jimnotgym wrote: post #419

Bezos can keep his donations, I just want Amazon to pay tax like any other business would in the UK, pay employees NI like any other business in the UK, and pay minimum wage like any other business in the UK. It shouldn't be up to the billionaires to choose where to spend money that should be in the hands of national governments and workers. This article for instance shows homeless Amazon warehouse workers living in…

I like your thinking but Amazon/Bezos will push the boundaries to minimize costs and to be successful.

The 2B is a start but it's up to society to make sure he doesn't go too far by putting limits where needed.

Amazon's ways would change tomorrow if customers would speak up against its abusive ways but we all love PRIME, their customer service, and the convenience.

Amazon at least has to hire people to get the job done, good or bad people still have work. Apple, the largest cap company in the world, does its work with a fraction of the people that Amazon does, 500k+ for Amazon vs 120k+ for Apple. And they minimized their tax footprint while having truckloads of externalities that cost society billions.

The criticism of Standard Oil and John D. Rockefeller was highlighted by the longterm reporting of Ida Tarbell in the Saturday Evening Post. He was criticised before but Tarbell brought up to a different level in people's minds. No one seems to have the guts and long-term focus to do it for the new tech giants.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#449

Post by staticautomatic » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:48 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #422

staticautomatic wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad actors must be held to account even if they occasionally do good things. I see no compelling reason to withhold criticism of Amazon because of this.

The reverse is true as well. It would apparently kill people to admit that giving two billion dollars to something like this is an act of good faith because their judgment is so clouded by hate.

Whether or not it was done in good faith is irrelevant because it does not and cannot compensate for the harm Amazon/Bezos has caused.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#450

Post by watertom » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

The homeless issue is, IMHO, a mental health crisis. We as a society didn't want to pay for the freeloading mental health patients, so now we have the homeless.

In 1955 there were 560,000 patients in all mental hospitals across the united states, private, public and government.

In 2010 there were 43,000 psychiatric beds in the United States, or about 14 beds per 100,000 people—the same ratio as in 1850

In 1950 there were 300 state psychiatric hospitals in the U.S., with 320,000 patients, today there are about 180 hospitals, with and about 20,000 patients.