Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#411

Post by thekingofh » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

xamuel wrote: post #392

asdkhadsj wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really frustrating when a man makes that much and does so little. Like, I don't think/know if it should be law. I'm not talking about being Robinhood with our taxes or whatever. I don't know any of that. All I know is it's frustrating . Look at all the good Gates is working towards. There's just so much room for people with that much wealth to strive for. Honestly.. I think what's most frustrating is I can't ev…

If I were Bezos, I'd do a lot more for charity. That said, you're making the fallacy of thinking like money is a natural resource we dig up from the ground or something, that Bezos is hoarding. No. Money is just an abstraction of barters and favors owed. Suppose Bezos pays a surgeon $100k to treat a patient. Well, the surgeon could have done it for free. So if Bezos didn't pay the surgeon, who is responsible for the…

Gasp! You aren't suggesting we adhere to the rule of law and personal freedoms protected for us by the constitution?

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#412

Post by Aloha » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

stmfreak wrote: post #395

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch your causality. You know what helps mental illness and addiction? Stability. The kind of stability you get from knowing where you'll sleep each night, knowing that you'll be safe, not simply trying to survive each day. It is a complicated problem. There are no magic bullets, no panaceas, but it's ludicrous to think that housing per se isn't a major aspect of this issue. The threat of homelessness introduces anx…

Most of the addicted once had stability, but lost it because they would not give up their addiction(s).

'Could not' is probably a fairer and more accurate description of the disease of addiction.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#413

Post by skufuor » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #173

NeonVice wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Amazon creating more homeless people?

Look at their home in Seattle. The influx of people is pushing up housing prices to pretty unbearable levels. It's not as bad as the Bay Area, but the homeless situation there has been bad for a long time. The large Seattle companies also work in discount deals for housing, which is far from ethical or fair: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/is-it-hou... People are critical because Amazon has rarely…

And they're planning on permanently giving them space in one of the new office buildings.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-creating...

Disclosure: i work at Amazon.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#414

Post by loceng » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

The reason Bezos is the richest man in the world is he successfully tapped into facilitating the supply chain and has continued to fill different roles of the whole funnel and on a massive, growing scale. His success is shining a light on the future of using autonomous systems to further reduce costs and increase profits, however that doesn't lead to any individually owned system or organization to being incentivized to allocate their services or products to take care of society's basic needs. This is where government should come in, however then you have competition against what's best for society - you have layers upon layers of for profit systems pressuring the system for their own advantage, their own specific needs to succeed and benefit the most, at the direct or indirect cost of others and society of a whole. Jeff and no one should have to shoulder these costs on their own, though he certainly is heavily benefitting from the status quo, and the exponential benefit weighted towards his scale and foundational transactional layer they support, and so it's good he's directing some resources - however whether his core values and efforts are attempting to solve the deeper problems or if he and his companies will simply pressure existing systems to benefit their own systems they excel at primarily for their own benefit, and not the benefit of the system as a whole, is what we should be questioning.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#415

Post by InitialLastName » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

ZainRiz wrote: post #394

abalone wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is actually a very popular opinion, and also very poorly informed. Your reasoning is entirely anecdotal and a trivial exercise in confirmation bias. Here's one article (among many) exploring why "Seattle's homeless population went up 44% in the last two years."[1] Spoiler: it's not because addiction and mental illness went up 44%. [1] https://q13fox.com/2017/12/06/seattles-homeless-population-w...

That link didn't say anything about why the homeless population went up, other than "rents went up". It doesn't explain what stops people from looking for jobs in other, cheaper places, which is something I'm struggling to understand

> It doesn't explain what stops people from looking for jobs in other, cheaper places, which is something I'm struggling to understan

What's hard to understand? Moving anywhere for a new job is expensive, and most people (even those with well-above-median incomes) have no savings. Most jobs don't include relocation, and the first paycheck doesn't come for ~4 weeks after starting. That means that moving as one person bringing nothing with you, you still need to house yourself for a month with no income, likely no connections (since you've moved somewhere presumably away from the family/friends in your hometown), and where you have no idea about local circumstances.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#416

Post by corysama » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #390

corysama wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you are advocating. Amazon paid people a lot locally. That's usually considered a nice thing. As a side effect, that inflated prices locally. That's sad. So, to not be shamed by you, they should have been doing ambiguous something all along. What?

I suppose I'm advocating that we structure our society such that one person gaining wealth does not make it more difficult for another to live their life. I'm pointing out that, in a vacuum, this specific scenario: > One family gets a large raise. Another gets a slightly harder time finding affordable housing. is something to avoid , not strive for.

Sure. But, it feels like there is a lot of shooting the messenger here. There is obviously a fault in the housing market of Seattle. If there wasn’t, supply would have risen to meet demand. But, Amazon didn’t cause the fault. They just made it obvious. So, when shit gets bad, who does the pitchforks come out for? The ones who made the problem obvious.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#417

Post by refurb » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:22 PM UTC

leesec wrote: post #377

fixermark wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, it used to be law. Tax rate on the top-1% of earners in the US was much, much, MUCH higher until the recent four or so decades.

Source? Genuinely curious.

Just do a search for historical tax brackets. The OP is correct, however he doesn’t follow up with the effective tax rate paid. In the 1940s there were a lot more tax deductions.

The effective tax rate for those in the top 1% hasn’t changed all that much and is near historical highs.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#418

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:23 PM UTC

stmfreak wrote: post #395

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch your causality. You know what helps mental illness and addiction? Stability. The kind of stability you get from knowing where you'll sleep each night, knowing that you'll be safe, not simply trying to survive each day. It is a complicated problem. There are no magic bullets, no panaceas, but it's ludicrous to think that housing per se isn't a major aspect of this issue. The threat of homelessness introduces anx…

Most of the addicted once had stability, but lost it because they would not give up their addiction(s).

The literature disagrees. The causes of addiction are complex, but are broadly based in factors that are reasonably considered 'instability' in the colloquial sense. These include things like adolescent abuse, SES, disengagement from 'conventional' society, mental illness, etc. There is a genetic component, but its contribution is relatively modest.

The trope of a well-functioning adult succumbing to the allure of drug abuse is a red herring.

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1080/09595239996329

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#419

Post by jimnotgym » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:23 PM UTC

Bezos can keep his donations, I just want Amazon to pay tax like any other business would in the UK, pay employees NI like any other business in the UK, and pay minimum wage like any other business in the UK. It shouldn't be up to the billionaires to choose where to spend money that should be in the hands of national governments and workers. This article for instance shows homeless Amazon warehouse workers living in tents [0]. Maybe a better solution to homelessness is to pay people properly.

[0]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/amazon-worke...

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#420

Post by _bfhp » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:25 PM UTC

kashyapc wrote: post #379

_bfhp wrote: post #350

Serious albeit philosophical question: Why not more? Why not $160B?

Your question reminds me of the Australian moral philosopher (and one of the founders of the "Effective Altruism" movement) Peter Singer. I have an inkling that you know him. He talks about (and makes people squirm) "how much should one give?": " [...] In particular, he expands upon some of the arguments made in his 1972 essay "Famine, Affluence, and Morality", in which he posits that citizens of rich nations are mor…

An "anonymous" author sharpens this argument in a Current Affairs essay called It's Basically Just Immoral To Be Rich. The logic works better applied to super-rich people than trying to get to the assertion that everyone should give up expensive things they have or want and live in some minimal way. Also check out This Little Rock And All Who Sail On It on the same website.