Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace • Hacker News Board

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#21

Post by rrdharan » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:50 PM UTC

everybodyknows wrote: post #19

sharkweek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite DFW observations was about how on his press tour following the release of Infinite Jest, he was doing readings two or so weeks after it had released. People were coming up to him and praising him, wanting a piece of him. He commented to.... Maybe David Lipsky I think? that it would have been nearly impossible for these fans to have read the book in its entirety, and that it made him super self-cons…

Not abashed myself to admit giving up on Jest around the 1/3 point, and Eden at 1/4. Hemingway's strengths are high rhetoric, and European politics of the 30's. Wallace: deep journalism in essay form.

I gave up on it at around the 1/3 point for 10+ years. Trying to read the paperback was a frustrating exercise when I was too OCD to ever skip a footnote.

I went back to it on my Kindle and finally finished it a few years ago and am very glad I did, I really enjoyed it.

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#22

Post by asdfman123 » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #13

coldtea wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who consider others as "thinking to be smarter than they are" are simply anti-intellectual in general, and tend to see any effort towards the arts, reading, philosophy, etc that's not marketable or job-related as pretension. There is some judgement inherent in this observation.

I approve of people thinking they're smarter than they are, because that's a worthy aspiration. Compared to, say, people who think they're hipper or more attractive than they are. If it makes people read literature that stretches their mind, that's great. Pretension can be the first step towards not needing to pretend.

There's a difference between aspiring to something versus pretending to already have it -- one quality is much more admirable than the other.

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#23

Post by pjmorris » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:59 PM UTC

S-E-P wrote: post #4

Subversion by sincerity I strive to be sincere, although as my life has taught me, people can rarely be trusted. In my experience, when I do finally find someone that can be trusted, it is then that the fruits of my sincerity show. I'm often sincere simply because it makes me smile when someone did not expect it, and watching them attempt to process/respond is something that brings me joy. Simply by exposure to since…

> With sincerity, there is vulnerability, and while many consider that to be weakness, I count it a strength.

I, too, count vulnerability a strength. There's an essay I keep meaning to write about it, but the short of it is that each of us has needs (and 'rough edges'), that can't be filled by self-sufficiency, but by connection. And vulnerability is what makes connection possible.

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#24

Post by asdfman123 » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:01 PM UTC

kolbe wrote: post #12

coldtea wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who consider others as "thinking to be smarter than they are" are simply anti-intellectual in general, and tend to see any effort towards the arts, reading, philosophy, etc that's not marketable or job-related as pretension. There is some judgement inherent in this observation.

It's difficult to think of very many people who are more intelligent than they think they are. I'm not sure why this characterization should be used for any group other than to troll them. There is significant judgement inherent in this observation.

They're hard to identify because they aren't going around advertising how smart they think they are. You only know it if you get to know them very well.

They're often kids born to lower-middle-class or working class backgrounds.

Or they're likeable people with good social skills who found popularity effortlessly, so never felt the need to look smart. But if you talk to them they're actually really inquisitive and perceptive.

Or they're women or minorities.

I realize that growing up, everyone who I considered to be "really smart" happened to be white, Indian or Asian and male. That means there are whole demographics of smart people I didn't even recognize.

In high school, I was considered to be a top tier "smart kid," and ended up studying physics at Stanford. I thought about a girl I grew up with... who actually ran circles around me in math in 4th grade. And was a better writer than me. But she majored in communications at USC, and is working for People magazine. She was not as beholden to the "I'm so smart" identity that I was.

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#25

Post by drumttocs8 » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:08 PM UTC

psergeant wrote: post #2

The people I know to whom DFW appeals tend to be those who think they’re smarter than they are. There is no judgement inherent in this observation.

The important thing is that you've figured out a way to think you're smarter than the people who think they're smarter than they are...

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#26

Post by 6stringmerc » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:09 PM UTC

Wallace's writing never resonated with me, which is strange based on my longtime interest in Hunter S. Thompson. In many ways there are parallels in their respective fame / accolades / audiences and yet, to me, Wallace seemed inexcusably contrived compared to Thompson's seeming dismissal of convention was out of necessity (at least initially - it did become an act of sorts later).

I did find one part of this article worth considering beyond just a discussion of Wallace:

>For twenty years, his entire career, Wallace wrestled with a question: How much of myself am I willing to give away to get what I want?

...followed by...

>He got what he wanted and didn’t want.

If there's any one dynamic that is willfully ignored by almost everybody in modern society - especially in the rise of Social Media Stardom (aka Soundcloud Rappers & Influencers) - this hits the nail on the head.

Wallace, to me, is more interesting as a case study of failure in success than as a literary powerhouse. Not everybody can be like Jerry Lewis and keep up an act for a lifetime.

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#27

Post by vaer-k » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:13 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #14

vaer-k wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like DFW. I just think he's a witty entertaining writer. I'm far from what I'd consider an intellectual. Love pop culture, video games and other "dumb" stuff. Thanks for the generalized insult though.

Please don't respond with another swipe. That just makes this place worse. Your comment would be fine without the last sentence.

I commented to complain about his swipe; you commented to complain about mine. I'm not sure where we're going here.

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#28

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:20 PM UTC

S-E-P wrote: post #4

Subversion by sincerity I strive to be sincere, although as my life has taught me, people can rarely be trusted. In my experience, when I do finally find someone that can be trusted, it is then that the fruits of my sincerity show. I'm often sincere simply because it makes me smile when someone did not expect it, and watching them attempt to process/respond is something that brings me joy. Simply by exposure to since…

[deleted]

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#29

Post by mwwilson » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

vaer-k wrote: post #27

dang wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't respond with another swipe. That just makes this place worse. Your comment would be fine without the last sentence.

I commented to complain about his swipe; you commented to complain about mine. I'm not sure where we're going here.

dang is one of the mods. This comment is the equivalent of telling the cop who pulled you over for speeding that if you were speeding then he must have been too when he pulled you over.

Re: Being a bad friend to David Foster Wallace

#30

Post by thatcat » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:04 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #18

tlb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I approve of people thinking they're smarter than they are, because that's a worthy aspiration. Compared to, say, people who think they're hipper or more attractive than they are. If it makes people read literature that stretches their mind, that's great. Pretension can be the first step towards not needing to pretend.

Pretension tends to be satisfied with appearances---carrying the literature around rather than actually reading it.

Having it around is a prerequisite to reading it.