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LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

antirez.com

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Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#111

Post by [deleted] »

master-litty wrote: post #90
smsm42 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do these political police stand to gain from all of this? A warm fuzzy feeling of seemingly contributing to the Forces of Good and fighting the Forces of Evil. Some launch rockets to the Moon, some create beautiful art, some create awesome software. Some instead bully people to not use certain words. The consider it their contribution to the society. Unfortunately, as more and more people fold to their pressur…

It's creating a culture that is welcoming to more individuals, regardless of sex, race, and background. It's not bullying. In fact, I'd say active code maintainers who receive these requests and don't _reasonably_ accommodate them are the real bullies.

[deleted]

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#112

Post by antirez »

tmp407ER3DIE wrote: post #73
antirez wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep! That's the idea. If you write LOLWUT version 5 you'll see past versions.

antirez, typo in the command and in the blog post: Georg Ness -> Georg Nees (per the Wikipedia article at least).

Thanks! Fixing.

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#113

Post by s_kilk »

angersock wrote: post #36
s_kilk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did the computer people get the term from?

Probably from engineering in the 30s/40s, I'd bet. Say you had two gun turrets with servos, and used a synchro slaved to another synchro to have one track whatever the other was pointing at. It's pretty obvious terminology for systems that don't support dynamic hierarchy changes. EDIT: Consulting some docs from the time ( http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/USNAVY/CHAPTER-10-D.html ), this may not be the case. I'm genuine…

Right, I guess my point is, where does the term originate, really?

And I'm pretty sure it originates in slavery. (Glad to be wrong on that if there's any experts around)

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#114

Post by beaconstudios »

kickscondor wrote: post #5

Ah, hackers, we are getting lost inside capitalism - inside startups - inside e-commerce and social media... I am not talking about socialism or leftism, we can get lost in those too - I am talking about 'personal'/'hobbyist'/'obscure' - like we see in zine sites like whimsy.space or the rabbit hole of sites like philosopher.life. A part of our humanity will always be in 'obfuscation'/'code golf', demoscene, abandonw…

you, uh, got any more of them philosopher.life sites? H0p3's wiki combines three of my favourites things: function over form art, Jungian reasoning and the (true) hacker ethos of unbounded individual exploration. I've always wanted to be a part of a community following those ideals or the underlying unifier between them (cicada 3301 exemplified this mentality too; lesswrong seems interesting but I get the impression of it being "too" rational to the point of being detached) but I have no idea where to find them (or even what to look for).

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#115

Post by zaarn »

s_kilk wrote: post #113
angersock wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably from engineering in the 30s/40s, I'd bet. Say you had two gun turrets with servos, and used a synchro slaved to another synchro to have one track whatever the other was pointing at. It's pretty obvious terminology for systems that don't support dynamic hierarchy changes. EDIT: Consulting some docs from the time ( http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/USNAVY/CHAPTER-10-D.html ), this may not be the case. I'm genuine…

Right, I guess my point is, where does the term originate, really? And I'm pretty sure it originates in slavery. (Glad to be wrong on that if there's any experts around)

The term master does have origins in the latin word "magister" (teacher, leader, chief or someone with a license to each philosophy or liberal arts). The middle english form, maister, was not connected to slavery either, it was more about someone of authority (ie, lord, ruler).

A lot of times it's use similarly like "Master Clock". The term in technology is strongly connected to that root; the master in a protocol is the leading participant.

I think simply not using "slave" for the passive or accepting device would be sufficient to reduce the problem since that is the word that has even in the deeper roots of it's origin the same meaning as today. (Slave comes from Slav, a group of people enslaved in the medieval ages and later expanded to cover all "slavs")

For a current project I'm using master/client as terminology.

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#116

Post by malvosenior »

bigiain wrote: post #103
malvosenior wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my argument against saying the term master/slave is confusing . Like you said, some people found it offensive, there's no credible argument that says it was confusing (although people are trying to make it). My argument against making the change is that it's high risk for a functional NOOP.

A "functional NOOP" for people with a particular privilege. Rosa Parks would have risked much less and still have gotten home if she'd given up her bus seat. Would that have been a "functional NOOP" too? (Edit: In rereading this I can see it might be taken as accusative or aggressive. It's not intended in that way, and certainly not intended to accuse you personally of overprivilege or racism...)

I didn't take it as a personal attack (and didn't downvote you) but I don't agree. There was an actual rule in place that Rosa Parks had to stand up against, not just terminology she was uncomfortable with.

I think it's not safe to assume people who are from minority groups or people from underprivileged backgrounds have a problem with this (source, myself).

When you experience actual racism, something like this looks pretty silly. I'm in agreement with antirez. I wouldn't use these terms in a new project, but their use for the past half a century should be pretty uncontroversial and definitely not cause for mass mobbing/shaming...

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#117

Post by malvosenior »

bigiain wrote: post #104
malvosenior wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. I code because it's fun for me and I find it inherently interesting (and yes, whimsical). That I can make a good living doing what I love is great. That businesses can derive value from my code doesn't really concern me either way. It does irk me to see people be so demanding with antirez. They are in many cases benefiting financially from Redis, all for free. It's ridiculous to get on a high horse a…

Heh. Staunch agreement in this thread - respectful disagreement in that other one. We should go for a beer or coffee...

That is funny :) Your profile is very interesting and I'd take you up on your offer. Sadly though, because I speak my mind politically with this account (often questioning the left-wing status quo) I must stay anonymous otherwise I risk real career damage.

Back on topic, it's great to see people who can be on opposite sides of the major areas of debate in our industry have a common underlying love of tech that's bigger than business (and politics).

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#118

Post by bovermyer »

ac2u wrote: post #89
bovermyer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it was trivial.

You didn't use the words, but if saying that community discomfort eclipses all the different types of the work involved (with your point being that they might have been better just doing the work) isn't a trivialisation of said work, then I don't know what is. EDIT: Actually, I take that back, sorry. If we both have different estimations of what the community discomfort actually is (both the discomfort currently and…

Yes, and I think this is indicative of a broader problem with humanity itself.

It's very easy to assume that things that impact oneself negatively were done out of malice. Most of the time, these are innocent or naive, not malicious. However, as humans, we tend to jump to the worst possible case and _act on that assumption_. That's the real problem here.

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#119

Post by lanyard-textile »

smsm42 wrote: post #95
master-litty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's creating a culture that is welcoming to more individuals, regardless of sex, race, and background. It's not bullying. In fact, I'd say active code maintainers who receive these requests and don't _reasonably_ accommodate them are the real bullies.

> It's creating a culture that is welcoming to more individuals Somehow I feel less welcome in a culture where there are lots of people vigilantly seeking offense where none ever was and waiting to pounce on the use of every word they can find any reason, real or imaginary, to feel slighted with. In fact, I feel a strong desire to not touch such a culture with a ten foot pole. I am glad to contribute my time and my e…

This is extreme and very, very far beyond the scope of what I was attempting to discuss.

That's a lot different than simply submitting a PR to change "man" to "person" -- If there's actual physical threats occurring on a regular basis within our communities I'm severely uninformed. No argument, it's bullying and it's wrong.

I suppose in that case, I advocate the underlying message but not its conveyance.

Re: LOLWUT: a piece of art inside a database command

#120

Post by lanyard-textile »

malvosenior wrote: post #93
master-litty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's creating a culture that is welcoming to more individuals, regardless of sex, race, and background. It's not bullying. In fact, I'd say active code maintainers who receive these requests and don't _reasonably_ accommodate them are the real bullies.

Creating and maintaining an open source project is an act of generosity. Making demands on open source maintainers and "shaming" them into political actions in no way creates a welcoming culture, quite the contrary. If you don't like the code, fork it if you must but don't harass the creator of the thing you get to use for free.

I believe I'm misinformed about what's happening lately, I'm not advocating for political action or anything of that nature. Just supporting the underlying message.
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