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China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

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Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#271

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

Its also incredibly expensive to go to college here compared to anywhere else on earth. But in public education the math and science coverage tends to be horrific, but that's because we pay teachers such low wages they often have to live in their vehicles. Who wants a job that is completely stripped of human dignity?

The high cost of college here is honestly more about amenities than anything else. Whenever the discussion of making college tuition-free comes up in the U.S., people nearly always point to Europe as an example of an area where free education is the norm. What few people tend to take into account, however, is that European universities are pretty no-frills for the most part. I personally enjoyed the bare bones approach to higher ed during my time studying abroad (no stupid residential education office to overcharge me for crap housing, no forced meal plans, buying textbooks at my discretion alone), but I know a number of people from my undergrad who would be utterly lost without the amount of hand-holding and perks (gyms, expensive facilities that almost certainly are underutilized, etc) that occur in American universities.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#272
post #231
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But none of what it takes for Chinese to posibly overtake one day is in place. Schools aren’t mass teaching chinese, chinese movies, music and authors aren’t captivating people’s mind, and there is already a modern latin (english), so learning chinese isn’t going to fix a problem people have, other than communicating with Chinese nationals who do not speak english.

> chinese movies, music and authors aren’t captivating people’s mind Cixin Liu's "Three-Body Problem" sci-fi novel is pretty popular and is being made into a movie[1] this year. And some Chinese musicians, like Faye Wong, have been well-known in the the west for many years. So while American, Japanese and Korean entertainment is much more dominant, I don't think that's an entirely fair statement. [1] https://www.imdb…

I am sure you can name a handful more movies and bands. But compared to the tens of thousands of US and British movies, bands and writers that have influenced western culture (and beyond), this is still nothing more than annecdotic at this stage.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#273
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to US and UK in terms of general science research. I would include Japan but language is an issue (for many). Despite what the average math and science metrics in the US imply, I actually think it’s a direct result of more practical approach to education in the US. There are unbelievable opportunities for young students who want to excel in sciences. I was around graduate level research environm…

How hard it is to access it as an adult with a career? I'm an immigrant software engineer but I'd love to work in research (I think). Is there a path other than a PhD at this point?

Try to hustle your way into a Research Software Engineer [0] role somewhere. The role isn't formally acknowledged in the U.S. (outside of Google) but you can usually find them posted on university job boards as "Programmer/Analyst" or something similar. Downsides include crap pay and the potential for your job to spontaneously disappear after soft money [1] runs out.

[0] https://rse.ac.uk/who/

[1] https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/30621/what-is-a...

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#274

As a Chinese I have to say simply number is totally meaningless. China's research is still closely connected with government behavior and all of the top universities are founded and managed by the government. A few top universities are actually government departments. In China the only way to get more salary and promotion in title is too give as much as papers as one can. Thus a considerable amount of them are totall…

So basically what we're seeing is publish or perish on steroids by your assessment?

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#275
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The process of English becoming the global language has taken over 150 years. Massive cultural and economic forces have been at play to make English global. It's not a simple thing, and what will likely happen is language balkanization for a significant period of time before any seismic shift from English to Chinese which is unlikely to happen for a number of reasons regardless.

Over 150 years? It is a far fetched claim that the influence of english started in the 1870's. I would say it started 50-60 years ago at most.

I would absolutely not say that. The British Empire encompassed more than a quarter of the population, and in the 1870s the US became the world's largest national economy.

I think what you're thinking about is when English supremacy started, that can probably be dated to the post-WWII world when the US economy was far ahead of everyone else for decades.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#276
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started with the rise of the British Empire. Pax Americana just helped solidify it. Even without an English speaking US, English would be about as popular as Mandarin: there are a billion Indians.

> there are a billion Indians That is true... but only 10% of Indians can speak English. It might appear higher because visitors are likely to remain in urban or tourist-y areas, where the percentage of English speakers is much higher.

English still has a lot of influence over India, though. I think this thread is confusing influence with supremacy, English has had a huge influence on other languages and cultures for centuries.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The process of English becoming the global language has taken over 150 years. Massive cultural and economic forces have been at play to make English global. It's not a simple thing, and what will likely happen is language balkanization for a significant period of time before any seismic shift from English to Chinese which is unlikely to happen for a number of reasons regardless.

Before World War II, French was more popular than English.

In diplomacy, yes. However, the US was the largest national economy even in the 1870s so in trade, no.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is not a manifestation of stupidity, I think it is motivated by distrust of authorities. I'm not seeing how those things are mutually exclusive.

I don't think the GP was saying that they are, only that stupidity is not the driving force. They even said as much at the end: >Sure there are probably stupid people that don't understand but they are not driving so to speak. For example, we're all aware of Einstein's flub wrt quantum mechanics, a mistake that was grounded in his religious beliefs. I think you'd have a hard time arguing he was a stupid man.

I wouldn't call them stupid. Though when irrational and unreasonable fear of a slippery slope result leads a significant portion of a population to deny the obvious to their detriment, I'm comfortable calling that a stupid action.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US certainly has a cultural problem, out of all major countries out there, US has a weird position where a significant population denies evolution/climate change, and turned those topics into highly political charged issues. Also the US education system prior to college takes an another interesting aim to cultivate students' confidence, not by equipping them with logical training, but circumventing hard subjects like…

Sorry what makes you think the second largest economy in the world is by any measure poor? These countries are quite wealthy, despite the fact that a large chunk of their populations are poor.

oh-kumudo didn't call China poor, they said China was poor and now they're not.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#280
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't watch the news and problem solved. Life is great here and I rarely come across divisive political fights except on TV and the internet. The media thrives on it, so that's what they focus on.

I am/was in the same boat as OP. I moved back to Germany after almost a decade in the US (mostly Silicon Valley). Closing your eyes does not make the problems go away. Even if you don't care and avoid the tens of millions of left-behind people, for myself, looking at things like health care was enough to give me second thoughts. It is nice as long as it is nice. I had a colleague, enterprise sales, very good income,…

> huge part of entertainment in movies, shows and games made/consumed in the US is about violence horror, and/or the end of society or even the world (oh and "heroes" of course - always coupled with violence). That is not a global phenomenon

It is a global phenomenon. Chinese 'Three-body problem' and wuxia/xanxia flicks. Japanese films and animes. Also numerous books and films from France, England, Russia, Australia...

> I can't imagine the same scenario in Europe, at least not on the same dystopian level.

Well, two most bloody wars in past century were in Europe... and they were pretty dystopian.

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