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UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

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Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#11

Post by maze-le »

monkeynotes wrote: post #10
vidarh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, as far as I know the only European states that are not part of ECHR and Council of Europe are the Vatican (since they're a theocracy...), Kosovo since it has limited international recognition, Kazakhstan and Belarus over human rights violations. No European state that'd be eligible has chosen to voluntarily stay outside. Azerbaijan and Russia are the closest to being in trouble of the current members (Russia…

It's surprising to find that the ECHR does not consider same-sex marriage a human right.

>> Convention for the Protection of Human Rights

>> Article 14 – Prohibition of discrimination:

>> The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status. [0]

Granted, its not about marriage, but according to the ECHR, its a human right to live free of discrimination based on sexual orientation.

[0]: https://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventio...

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#12

Post by nbevans »

pjc50 wrote: post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. And Britain created the ECHR.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#13

Post by gsnedders »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #6

Is this the end of the case or is there some future sentencing? I find it hard to believe they weren't aware the programs violated human rights law, and I'm not sure what we're hoping a court confirming it's bad will accomplish.

Any penalties against the treaty signatories are done when the the judgment is made final, either by three months elapsing or by the Grand Chamber declining a request for referral or appeal, or ultimately by the Grand Chamber publishing a judgment (and that is by definition final). This judgment was published by the (lower) Chamber of the Court, so we likely have a while to go yet.

The important point is the judgment that the UK's domestic law is in violation of the UK's treaty obligations, but as is common with most treaties there's little in way of active enforcement (notably the ECtHR doesn't have power to directly overrule or strike down domestic law).

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#14

Post by close04 »

antibes wrote: post #9
close04 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[OT] Kazakhstan is Central Asia. I'm sure this is one of the many true reasons for Brexit, all of them hidden from the mass of people voting for it.

I think it is that we can't do anything about a vast number of serious criminals without cessation from any appearance of such laws. I know that in isolated cases the law is bluntly ignored and treated with contempt.

If you can't stop criminals without breaking the law yourself get another job. And if you have to trample human rights to do it maybe you should be right next to those criminals, getting the same treatment.

I'm sure you would quickly have a change of heart if you were subjected to the same violations.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#15

Post by matthewmacleod »

pjc50 wrote: post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

I don't think there's any reason to make that assumption at all. Aside from the ECHR !== EU thing than a dozen other people have already pointed out – and the fact that the ECHR is substantially a UK invention – I just don't get why you think this would make a difference.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#16

Post by standon »

monkeynotes wrote: post #10
vidarh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, as far as I know the only European states that are not part of ECHR and Council of Europe are the Vatican (since they're a theocracy...), Kosovo since it has limited international recognition, Kazakhstan and Belarus over human rights violations. No European state that'd be eligible has chosen to voluntarily stay outside. Azerbaijan and Russia are the closest to being in trouble of the current members (Russia…

It's surprising to find that the ECHR does not consider same-sex marriage a human right.

In most countries the same-sex marriage comes trough legislation, not from court decisions.

ECHR has ruled that relationship of two same-sex partners falls under the notion of "family life". It means equality of treatment and non-discrimination in regard to the protection of family life.

But no same-sex marriage right. I's my understanding that this is difference between individual rights and state obligations.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#17

Post by clubm8 »

pjc50 wrote: post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

>I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire

That's a poor strategy then, since it's likely Scotland will have a second independence referendum and there is much strong support for independence now that it's seen as a way to stay in the European union.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#18

Post by pjc50 »

clubm8 wrote: post #17
pjc50 wrote: post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

> I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire That's a poor strategy then, since it's likely Scotland will have a second independence referendum and there is much strong support for independence now that it's seen as a way to stay in the European union.

Sadly there's no constitutional obligation for them to hold or respect that, or even preserve the Scottish parliament; I fear the situation may end up like Catalonia. Similar signals are in place for Northern Ireland.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#19

Post by tempay »

close04 wrote: post #7
vidarh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, as far as I know the only European states that are not part of ECHR and Council of Europe are the Vatican (since they're a theocracy...), Kosovo since it has limited international recognition, Kazakhstan and Belarus over human rights violations. No European state that'd be eligible has chosen to voluntarily stay outside. Azerbaijan and Russia are the closest to being in trouble of the current members (Russia…

[OT] Kazakhstan is Central Asia. I'm sure this is one of the many true reasons for Brexit, all of them hidden from the mass of people voting for it.

Part of Kazakhstan is within Europe.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Contemporary_definition

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#20

Post by NeedMoreTea »

antibes wrote: post #9
close04 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[OT] Kazakhstan is Central Asia. I'm sure this is one of the many true reasons for Brexit, all of them hidden from the mass of people voting for it.

I think it is that we can't do anything about a vast number of serious criminals without cessation from any appearance of such laws. I know that in isolated cases the law is bluntly ignored and treated with contempt.

That's a Daily Mail argument. The UK was a founder member of the Council of Europe in 1949, and the Euro Commission of HR looked heavily to the civil liberties traditions of the UK and others.

It is only the current crop of hard-Brexit Tories that have suddenly taken so against it. The previous 70 years, long before we even joined the EU or abolished hanging, managed to deal with criminals just fine without proposing leaving CoE

I doubt anyone who was aware of both expected leaving the EU would have any connection with the CoE and ECHR membership

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