Live data from Hacker News

China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

bloomberg.com

11–20 of 309 posts

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've read is that whereas Western academics and scientists are paid by salary or grant, Chinese scientists are paid substantially by number of papers published. So $500 for a paper in a top-tier journal, etc. Thus scientific papers provide indirect benefits in the West, but direct benefits in China - encouraging the "paper mill."

Publishing papers in the West provides a pretty direct benefit - there's a reason behind the saying 'publish or perish'.

Exactly it's often just slightly less explicit, emphasis on slightly.

Academia is toxic because again it is being measured. If a university cannot determine the quality of faculty other than counting publications and impact factors, the university itself is seriously lacking quality, alas there is a plague of it.

I wonder if it is directly related to the bloom/infestation of university administration sizes and top salaries.

I'm of the opinion that a university ought to be something like what you'd think a temple to discovery and knowledge ought to be, instead of a mill for producing credentials for students and a shitty game for faculty advancement.

if I had a billion dollars... (to the tune of the Barenaked Ladies)

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#14

> They document a rapid expansion between 2000 and 2016, as the Chinese share of global publications in physical sciences, engineering and math quadrupled. I really hate to risk being the guy who says "they will never best us," until they do, but in my field and many others Chinese papers are known to be of a lower quality standard and a lot more mill-like. This may come as a surprise to many, but the simple fact is…

The article points not just to number of publications but citations too, which hint that they aren't just paper mill papers. In my field, China is actually committing to investing in my kind of research in terms of facilities and such while the US is cutting of course.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've read is that whereas Western academics and scientists are paid by salary or grant, Chinese scientists are paid substantially by number of papers published. So $500 for a paper in a top-tier journal, etc. Thus scientific papers provide indirect benefits in the West, but direct benefits in China - encouraging the "paper mill."

Publishing papers in the West provides a pretty direct benefit - there's a reason behind the saying 'publish or perish'.

I could be wrong, but I would have guessed we were onto the next phase by now, that could be labelled: "Brilli-ant rhymes with grant"

That tenure would come from earning grants. Now keeping the grant gravy-train running smoothly does require churning out papers, but it is not the papers themselves that would be so important.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#17
More hard data from NSF global R&D spend. China seems laser focused on its momentum. But percentage-wise US allocation for pure science or basic research is roughly 17%. While China is at 5%. With a decided tilt toward product and materials based development.

2018 Overview of the State of the US Science & Engineering Enterprise in the Global Context

https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2018/nsb20181/assets/1387/ove...

My feeling is US could stand to double its R&D spend from 4% of GDP as a goal by 2040.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#18
post #16

A better index that measures QUALITY scientific research is the Nature index. By that measure, China is #2 in the world, tho far behind the US still. https://www.natureindex.com/country-outputs/generate/All/glo...

There's a nice uptrend it seems: https://www.natureindex.com/annual-tables/2018/country/all

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#19

> They document a rapid expansion between 2000 and 2016, as the Chinese share of global publications in physical sciences, engineering and math quadrupled. I really hate to risk being the guy who says "they will never best us," until they do, but in my field and many others Chinese papers are known to be of a lower quality standard and a lot more mill-like. This may come as a surprise to many, but the simple fact is…

Fraud is one thing. Continued experiments to learn are another.. even if applied in different domains. Take applied math. It can be written is a math journal, biology, chemistry, physics etc.. I would be suspect of clinical trials specifically but any preclinical work should be replicated. CS work is easy to replicate. So I think the specific threat of fraud is limited. Me too publications suggest learning but probably lack originality. The challenges are the inductive leaps which are usually counter intuitive and outside of the mainstream. Funding agendcies need to promotes those.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#20

> They document a rapid expansion between 2000 and 2016, as the Chinese share of global publications in physical sciences, engineering and math quadrupled. I really hate to risk being the guy who says "they will never best us," until they do, but in my field and many others Chinese papers are known to be of a lower quality standard and a lot more mill-like. This may come as a surprise to many, but the simple fact is…

Gatekeeper alert
Post reply on HN