21–30 of 48 posts
There _used_ to be many dialects spoken in France, like in most European countries. They really disappeared in earnest at the end of the 19th century when school was made compulsory, and exclusively in French, with children being punished for speaking any other language.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd like to know more. In New France, the majority was from northwestern France (Normands, Poitevins, etc.) but somehow they managed to settle on a language that is surprisingly similar to Parisian French despite the accent and informal terms whose northwestern roots are clear (according to the linguists that I've read). So did the colonists of New France build on the efforts of François 1er?
The language divide was mostly north/south with also a few other languages at the margins (Breton, Basque, Alsacien). Normands spoke French long before some emigrated to North America. Just ask the English.
Isn't reading such an article in English abit ironic?
If so, I'd say that English and Occitan (for example) are not in the same league, therefore not competitors. For example, no school pupil will choose to do part of his schooling in Occitan unless he lives in that region and even then it doesn't really replace a 'real' foreign language -- you need to learn one of those anyway. (Right?) But in Europe, when one decides between English and another major European language, the easiest answer is not always the best answer. And the easy answer demonstrates the bulldozer effect of English.
(I'm not a fan of English BTW. I use it when it's useful to me, like any other. Others have proven themselves far more useful to me at times. Just not when I read Hacker News!)
It certainly is not "the French". It's the "French Republic". Local dialects lived happily in France for over a Millennia under the Monarchy. The French dialect, mostly spoken in the Jacobin circles in Paris, was imposed by the revolutionaries as a mean to achieve "equality".
This is not true. The standardization of the french language started with Francois I, centuries before the revolution.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinance_of_Villers-Cotter%C3... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_France#Fren...
The occitan language that is learned in school is mostly a toy language. When Littré wrote his famous dictionary, from 1850 to 1875, he mentioned multiple dialects of the "langue d'Oc" which were still active in the South of France. Gascon, limousin, languedocien, catalan and provençal were distinct dialects. But there are no teachers fluent in any of these dialect, so during the 20th century they forged the "occitan" language which is a mix of these, but mostly built from provençal.
Overall, this article is very superficial. It wrote about troubadours, but forgot to mention a reference well-known in the UK: Richard Lionheart spoke in French and Provençal, and was probably not fluent in English. Living in France, in Aquitaine, he composed poetry in "langue d'Oc".
It's well known in France that the French Republic though that the local cultures were an obstacle to the unity of the nation. So they forbid every local language. There were panels in some schools with the text: "It is forbidden to spit and to speak Breton".
Well, I still speak it somewhat... The _truth_ is that the transition of Occitan speakers to French is by and large a process consented by the population (often encouraged by working men, like my grand-father who associated the "patois" with extremely backwards conditions) because it simply provided more economic and social opportunities at a time people started moving massively towards cities. In fact the South-West…
That may be true for some languages such as Occitan or Picard but others were purposefully killed by the republic. Alsatian for instance was forbidden in schools. If prestige only was at play Alsatians may have mostly became bilinguals (similar situation exists in Africa, Hong-Kong, India) instead of unilingual speakers of French.
Of course, if Alsatian had been allowed or supported, more people would speak it as bilinguals, but would it be enough to save it? Thousands of languages are dying, especially those that are spoken in a small geographic area where another language seems economically more useful.
As an example, Romanche is an official language of Switzerland, yet it is disappearing at an alarming rate. Even the Basque language, which is rare in France because of a century of concealment, is not flourishing in Spain. Basque is a official regional language in Spain, and the population that can speak it grows slowly, but now the majority of those who live in the Basque region don't understand its traditional langage. When only 20-30% of the population can speak correctly a language, how long can it survive?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That may be true for some languages such as Occitan or Picard but others were purposefully killed by the republic. Alsatian for instance was forbidden in schools. If prestige only was at play Alsatians may have mostly became bilinguals (similar situation exists in Africa, Hong-Kong, India) instead of unilingual speakers of French.
In order to unify the country, the French Republic fought against every language. Alsatian was forbidden in schools, but it was the same for anything outside French. Of course, if Alsatian had been allowed or supported, more people would speak it as bilinguals, but would it be enough to save it? Thousands of languages are dying, especially those that are spoken in a small geographic area where another language seems…
Which is kind of at odds with the idea above that "It's more comfortable to blame an abstract entity like the government than your ancestors. "
Alas, occitan is a dead language. Of course, a few old people still use their local dialect, but how many parents mainly speak in occitan to their children? How many people learn it out of school? Who grows speaking occitan with friends and enriching it with new expressions, like any living language? Occitan may have 3 millions of speakers in France, the Latin language still has more. The occitan language that is lea…
So, we slowly forgot our own language (the other parts of the country that were not dominated by the English to such a degree, actually look down on us a little bit, because we do not speak Welsh as our main dialect...).
Recently due to pushes from the government, more and more children are growing up and learning welsh, and it's now at the point that most jobs in wales are successfully requiring Welsh-speakers as part of their hiring.
It's completely possible to resurrect a dead language with native language speakers still in existence, it's faster than killing the language (It took 300 years to completely eradicate Welsh and only about 50 years of government efforts to resurrect it), it just requires the collective will to be there, and the wish to restore the culture (or some bastardized idealized version of it).