Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age • Hacker News Board

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#241

Post by mdtancsa » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

madeuptempacct wrote: post #82

Itaxpica wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much are you eating? I used to have similar troubles with recovery until I realized that I just wasn’t eating nearly enough to train at the volume I was. For me, adding two cups of Greek yogurt and a protein shake every day (so roughly 500 calories and 50 grams of protein over what I was eating before) made an enormous difference.

I am eating 90 grams of protein @ 190 lbs body-weight with a pretty low fat %.

as others have said, that does seem pretty low. I am 220lbs (tallish at 202 cm) and was eating about 120g. When I increased it to 175g I found my recovery was much better and and even though I was increasing my weekly distances (I run ultras for fun!), I wasnt getting any nagging overuse injuries. I try to get most of my protein from food rather than powders, but found it hard not to cheat a bit with whey, hemp and pumpkin in the mornings mixed in with my coco-puffs :)

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#242

Post by gthtjtkt » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #239

gthtjtkt wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe people still recommend squats and bench presses to beginners. Great way to cause a life-changing back or shoulder injury. Unilateral leg exercises and dumbbells are a much better starting point. They can work their way up to squats and bench presses if they decide to compete or want to impress people who ask "How much can you squat and bench?"

Starting weight is the bar. Pretty sure no one is going to kill themselves. The entire point of 5x5 programs is that A) it's for beginners, and B) you start from zero. It's a fine beginner's program.

> It's a fine beginner's program.

It's a subpar beginner program because it recommends complex, high-risk lifts when there are much safer alternatives that can achieve the same results.

Even professional lifters injure themselves while squatting with low weight. If you're not competing, there's no reason to choose barbell back squats over any of the alternatives.

But don't take my word for it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/2t47s0/my_doctor_t...

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#243

Post by baccheion » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

jmcgough wrote: post #211

baccheion wrote: post #92

Preventing muscle and bone loss mainly involves keeping hormones/vitamins/minerals/nutrients in range and maintaining efficient metabolism. And maybe exercising.

Diet often isn't enough as you age. You will almost certainly lose muscle (and thereby lose autonomy) as you age, unless you're getting some form of strength training. Strength training also stimulates osteoblasts, strengthening bones.

Not true. Adding vitamin D3, vitamin K2 MK-4, iodine/iodide, boron, silica (monomethylsilanetriol), etc does a lot to slow decline. And eventually topical pregnenolone + DHEA (5 mg : 5 mg). Strength training is also great.

If exercise continues into old age without proper nutrition and the additions mentioned above, it can worsen decline. And just adding supplements, improving nutrition, and ensuring regular movement (ie, not really exercising) still slows decline.

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#244

Post by gthtjtkt » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #226

gthtjtkt wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe people still recommend squats and bench presses to beginners. Great way to cause a life-changing back or shoulder injury. Unilateral leg exercises and dumbbells are a much better starting point. They can work their way up to squats and bench presses if they decide to compete or want to impress people who ask "How much can you squat and bench?"

Stronglifts (and other beginner LP programs) start the lifter at trivial weights, and by the time you reach weights that have the potential for injury, you have hundreds or even thousands of reps under your belt. The motion is practiced, the form is good, and you know how to move that weight. Squats can be started entirely unweighted. Bench can be started with dumbbells if you can't trivially handle a barbell. The mo…

> The motions are perfectly safe

In theory, sure. In reality, not even close. I guarantee there isn't a single person in this thread who could tell me what someone's squat form should look like based on their femur:torso ratio and hip/ankle flexibility. Should they squat high bar or low bar? Wide or narrow stance? Parallel or below parallel? Flat shoes or heel lifts? If you can't easily answer all of those questions, you have no business squatting anything more than the bar.

Squats, bench presses and deadlifts are extremely complex, high-risk lifts that serve no purpose for the average, non-competitive weightlifter. There are plenty of lower-risk alternatives that can achieve the same results.

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#245

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

lysp wrote: post #14

I always like to show this picture as an example. https://i.imgur.com/ZcDedfo.jpg I don't have an original source but it shows a MRI leg scan comparison between a 40yo triathlete, a sedentary 70yo and a 70yo triathlete. The picture tells the story...

40 and 70 are so similar I'm almost dubious.

that said I want to run now

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#246

Post by Dirlewanger » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

madeuptempacct wrote: post #20

morsma wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low carb and periodic water fasting (autophagy), and you should be set old age.

I keep seeing this on HackerNews - everyone seems to convinced that keto, intermittent fasting, and fasting are the new holy grail, I am unconvinced. I am convinced in the good old "enough sleep and cardio" theory though, since both have known working mechanisms (incread blood flow and debris clean up during sleep).

Go read some of Dr. Jason Fung's articles on his blog. Not saying fasting is a panacea, but doing it regularly unlocks lots of different health benefits. https://idmprogram.com/blog/

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#247

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

strls wrote: post #203

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting Strength is another excellent program to follow and if you pick up the book it features an exhaustive description of the bio-mechanics involved in each lift (which you can skip if you just want the charts).

I didn't like SS when I tried it. It users the rep range 3-5 for the working sets as far as I remember. This makes sense as the book is strength-focused. However this is just too heavy for a casual lifter. Lifting 5RM, the form and concentration has to be very tight not to screw up. I've gotten small injuries from lifting much lighter than that. Nowadays I wouldn't even consider lifting 3RM for reps without backup -…

> I've gotten small injuries from lifting much lighter than that.

Probably because you weren't focused. For me 1-5's are great - long enough to really build character, but short enough you can have the laser focus that the lifts require. If I'm doing 10 reps 3-8 I'm half there.

The only lift that requires backup (assuming you don't have the appropriate equipment) is the bench press - all others you drop the weight and walk away.

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#248

Post by lemming » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

avinassh wrote: post #182

st26 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.5g/lb (3.3g/kg) is considered by many in the weight training communities to be way overkill, and potentially hard on your kidneys.

> There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle for natural trainees. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64g/lb. source - https://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-pr...

See here for a great takedown of the studies that this page references, and how it distorts the actual study results on top of that: https://old.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/comments/98ephy/o...

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#249

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

TheCapn wrote: post #199

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you still stronglifting after 2 years? How has your progression been for the last year or so of that? As I understand it it's a fairly novice focused program with aggressive weight increases, so I was wondering how you modified it to continue running it after the first 3-6 months of easy gains went away.

You're not supposed to run it for 2 years. OP has made adhoc adjustments and is no longer following the program if he has been consistent. Even the SL5x5 site recommends moving on from the program. Their recommendation is Madcow 5x5 but there's other options out there.

I know, that's why I was curious. If you followed the program as written you'd be at like 2000 lbs of deadlift.

My own journey has taken me through Starting Strength to Texas method and then to various 5/3/1's (and occasional returns to Texas) through the years.

Re: Preventing Muscle Loss as We Age

#250

Post by lemming » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

lalos wrote: post #223

lemming wrote: post #60

I've been investigating recommended protein intake recently and counting calories to lose some weight, and it's amazing how little protein most people get compared to what is now recommended. Here's examine.com on the recommended amounts: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/ . I'm of fairly healthy weight, active and have been losing some weight, so I should be getting 2.2-3.3 g/kg according to…

Might be worth getting a urine sample and check how much protein there is. More than likely you are urinating most of that protein out through out the day.

https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-...

That being said, since fecal losses of protein and short-chain peptides tend to smell incredibly bad one can use a 'sniff-test' after bowel movements to assess if protein is being lost in the feces and thus not taken up by either the intestines or the muscle.

For a while I really tried to eat as much protein as I could, to see whether I could make the higher end of the recommendations. After a certain point, I could immediately tell I was failing the sniff test, and so could my family :-). At the amount I'm eating, I'm not.