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A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

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Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#61

Post by xxpor »

ende wrote: post #37
burlesona wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal zoning would be really difficult to get done constitutionally, but state level zoning wouldn’t be as hard and would have most of the same benefits, ie. reducing the power the nimbys. However there’s no reason to think that would fix it all, transportation planning, design, and funding is almost entirely a state and federal affair, and the nimbys still torpedo all sorts of things that would be great for the re…

Right. There’s no need to take this “all the way to the top” (ie Federal). States can easily supplant the zoning powers of their local governments.

>States can easily supplant the zoning powers of their local governments.

Depends on how home rule is set up in that state's constitution.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#62

Post by mywittyname »

mendelsd wrote: post #4

If you want to make housing affordable you will need to reckon with this: http://positivemoney.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-House... House prices move with mortgage credit growth. Credit growth is one of the key pillars of the politically sustained Ponzi-scheme that is the modern urban housing market.

Banks love mortgages because they are easy, safe ways to earn a bit more than the federal rate.

Wealthy consumers love mortgages because it's a cheap way to leverage a huge asset for market-rate returns.

Normal consumers love mortgages because it allows them to buy a house.

Good luck taking that away.

Additionally, while access to credit raises housing prices, there's no guarantee that removing access to that credit will in any way make housing more affordable for moderate- or low-income people. More people would be forced to rent and it's possible that the wealthy apartment owners will engage in rent seeking and rents will just raise to match or exceed the cost of a mortgage.

That will rob lower income people of their biggest opportunity for wealth creation (housing appreciation) and increase wealth inequality.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#63

Post by saosebastiao »

timr wrote: post #59
saosebastiao wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixation on anything other than housing supply is fixating on irrelevant noise. That includes density...there are plenty of dense cities that nonetheless restrict new supply and are thus unaffordable. Other affordable first world cities have accomplished the same thing as Tokyo via other means, including social housing (Vienna, Singapore), sprawl (Houston, Louisville), and density (Chicago, Montreal). There is one th…

"Fixation on anything other than housing supply is fixating on irrelevant noise. That includes density." That's like "fixating" on the money supply. Sure, having more of it lowers prices. The point is: how do you get there? What are the side-effects of your proposal? These are not simple questions. Fixating on zoning, at the exclusion of all other considerations, is a facile answer.

Zoning is the primary means by which supply is restricted in the US. That isn't facile, that is ordinary root cause analysis and reasoning in action.

Japan is proof that zoning doesn't have to represent a restriction on housing supply. But don't just dismiss Tokyo because you think other cultural factors are at play: Montreal, Chicago, Dallas, Calgary, and plentiful other US/Canadian cities have confirmed what Tokyo has already taught us.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#64

Post by CamTin »

xxpor wrote: post #61
ende wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. There’s no need to take this “all the way to the top” (ie Federal). States can easily supplant the zoning powers of their local governments.

>States can easily supplant the zoning powers of their local governments. Depends on how home rule is set up in that state's constitution.

Most state constitutions are relatively simple to amend. Certainly much easier than the U.S. Constitution.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#65

Post by joecot »

> On Aug. 13, Carson proposed requiring that cities that receive federal housing grants reduce their use of exclusionary zoning.

Question: is there anything stopping these cities from just deciding to decline federal housing grants? The biggest culprit in this issue is Silicon Valley. Do they really need Federal housing grants to make people want to move there? The issue is too much demand already.

If Carson forces the issue, I can absolutely see San Francisco's city leadership just declining grants instead of changing their zoning. That might be enough to get some people voted out, but it'll take a while.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#66

Post by grandmczeb »

joecot wrote: post #65

> On Aug. 13, Carson proposed requiring that cities that receive federal housing grants reduce their use of exclusionary zoning. Question: is there anything stopping these cities from just deciding to decline federal housing grants? The biggest culprit in this issue is Silicon Valley. Do they really need Federal housing grants to make people want to move there? The issue is too much demand already. If Carson forces t…

HUD grants are a major source of funding for things like fighting homelessness. The city could decline them, but they would have to make up the difference.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#67

Post by teachrdan »

xvedejas wrote: post #3

In Japan, zoning is handled federally; and the result is much more affordable cities. "Why Tokyo is the land of rising home construction but not prices" https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3... An overview of zoning practices there: http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

Japan is also the unique case of a developed country with declining population. That must contribute to the higher availability of affordable housing, right?

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#68

Post by pitaj »

skh wrote: post #28
pitaj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The constitution limits the authority of what the Federal government can do in the US I wish. If that was true I'd be much happier with politics than I am.

Your response only makes sense if the there are no constitutionally enforced limits on the powers of the federal government vs. state governments. The Medicare portion of the ACA being struck down by the Supreme Court is a notable counterexample to your comment. The check on federal powers may not go as far as you like but laughing in response to the comment that was made is in poor taste.

I didn't mean any disrespect, but fair enough. Edited my original comment.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#69

Post by GreeniFi »

teachrdan wrote: post #67
xvedejas wrote: post #3

In Japan, zoning is handled federally; and the result is much more affordable cities. "Why Tokyo is the land of rising home construction but not prices" https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3... An overview of zoning practices there: http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

Japan is also the unique case of a developed country with declining population. That must contribute to the higher availability of affordable housing, right?

Far from unique. Look at Europe.

Re: A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make housing more affordable

#70

Post by joecot »

grandmczeb wrote: post #66
joecot wrote: post #65

> On Aug. 13, Carson proposed requiring that cities that receive federal housing grants reduce their use of exclusionary zoning. Question: is there anything stopping these cities from just deciding to decline federal housing grants? The biggest culprit in this issue is Silicon Valley. Do they really need Federal housing grants to make people want to move there? The issue is too much demand already. If Carson forces t…

HUD grants are a major source of funding for things like fighting homelessness. The city could decline them, but they would have to make up the difference.

Would they though? Are cities required to make up the difference?

Problem: cities are artificially keeping housing prices up, pushing lower income people out in favor of the upper class. The housing market is forcing lower income people out of cities.

Solution: tell cities they have to stop artificially keeping housing prices up, or the federal government will stop subsidizing low income housing and subsidized loans.

If the goal is to gentrify your city and keep prices high, how is that a real threat? That solution is only a threat if you assume these cities aren't paying attention to what's happening at all, and I don't think San Francisco's leaders are that dim.

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