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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

481–490 of 632 posts

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect US minimums to be far greater than developing countries.

Well your expectations are wrong. As a poster a little above shows, the USA is closer to developing countries than developed on many metrics.

What I mean is, I would expect it to be given the wealth of the country. The fact that it isn't is damning.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#482

America is a country of huge wealth. Wealthy in natural resources, capital equipment, labor ... fucking everything. And yet we have such terrible poverty. When I read stories about poor people in America, always there is lurking just below the surface the key element of scarcity. Not food. Not transportation. Not clothing. Not even, surprisingly, health care. The missing factor in all these broken lives is the simple…

> America is a country of huge wealth. Wealthy in natural resources, capital equipment, labor ... fucking everything.

Doing nothing will not remove poverty. Still some work is needed at least to bring up natural resources and work on other areas... yes - everything needs some work. Just sitting and complaining will not make anyone richer.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#483
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. This is a traditional, stereotypical belief that in order to escape poverty you have to work harder. This is old understanding of meritocracy and it's no longer valid. The new meritocracy is that you have to learn harder. And now, given all the learning resources available for free on the internet (which is also very accessible nowadays) it's probably the best t…

Learning costs money, especially as an adult. You still need to cover your basic expenses, homeless or not.

Learning costs is only marginally higher than the cost of idleness.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#484
post #473
post #428

A few threads seem to believe that the minimum wage is high enough / need not be increased. I don’t actually want to argue about mechanism, but think that it’s imoortant to note that the math says our (current) minimum wage is demonstrably insufficient to remove poverty. With the Federal minimum wage currently at $7.25/hr, that’s just $15k/year at full-time. That puts many minimum wage workers below many countries’ a…

Interestingly enough, $7.25 would be enough for me to get by just fine where I'm at in Mississippi. I wouldn't have much left over, but it would more than cover my bills, food, and transportation. Not everyone could do it, but based on the numbers and my current expenses, I could. It's also a bit rare to find a job paying that little around here, based on what I saw during my job search in the beginning of the year.…

Do you have any children?

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#485
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, $7.25 would be enough for me to get by just fine where I'm at in Mississippi. I wouldn't have much left over, but it would more than cover my bills, food, and transportation. Not everyone could do it, but based on the numbers and my current expenses, I could. It's also a bit rare to find a job paying that little around here, based on what I saw during my job search in the beginning of the year.…

Do you have any children?

I do not.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#486
post #428

A few threads seem to believe that the minimum wage is high enough / need not be increased. I don’t actually want to argue about mechanism, but think that it’s imoortant to note that the math says our (current) minimum wage is demonstrably insufficient to remove poverty. With the Federal minimum wage currently at $7.25/hr, that’s just $15k/year at full-time. That puts many minimum wage workers below many countries’ a…

There are nearly twice as many Americans working below the minimum wage than at the minimum wage [0]. The BLS data is from self reported numbers. It doesn't include information about Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) or by individual state or local minimum wage laws. But if even a portion of those individuals working below the federal minimum wage in the gray market or under the table, it kind of makes minimum wage rates less important. If there is that much flexibility of employees to shift from (presumably) legal minimum wage jobs to under the table jobs paying below minimum wage, then increasing the minimum wage could serve to move some of those minimum wage workers to the informal sector. In the informal sector, they don't benefit from legal protections and would harm them in the long run (IMO).

[0] https://stats.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2016/home.ht...

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. This is a traditional, stereotypical belief that in order to escape poverty you have to work harder. This is old understanding of meritocracy and it's no longer valid. The new meritocracy is that you have to learn harder. And now, given all the learning resources available for free on the internet (which is also very accessible nowadays) it's probably the best t…

The capacity for self-education is not innate for most people. Developing this capacity requires dedication, the ability to delay gratification, significant emotional regulation, and most importantly it requires knowing how to learn. For optimal results, these skills must be fostered from an early age all the way through young adulthood. People who grew up with deprivation or abuse or neglect are unlikely to be good…

You also forgot the most important factor. Time. When your in school it's paid for. When your in college it's paid for. When you have children and you need to "put food on the table" the equation tips the other direction.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does “learning” really bring you out of poverty? Or is this the same old trope with an extra step added?

Delayed gratification is the mechanism behind all steps.

someone has to invest in you besides just you. could be parents, government, mentor, investor, teacher.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#489

Well jobs absolutely are the solution for the 85% of Americans living above the poverty line. That said... The article completely ignores the major cause of Vanessa's struggles: she is a single parent trying to raise three children. Where is the father of her children? If you are not married, do not have children. Just going by the statistics, I suspect Vanessa's children were born out of wedlock. Also, if you are ve…

It's said that you need to do 3 things in America to avoid poverty.

1. Graduate High School 2. Work full-time 3. Don't have a baby out of wedlock

It's that easy.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#490
post #483
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning costs money, especially as an adult. You still need to cover your basic expenses, homeless or not.

Learning costs is only marginally higher than the cost of idleness.

you assume poor people are idle.
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