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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

331–340 of 632 posts

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#331
post #230
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, nature strives for balance and equality. If the market is as you claim it should be working towards an equilibrium.

Not at all. In nature, the strongest lion has all the mates, while the second strongest has none.

Humans aren't lions, and our society doesn't work the same way, even in more primitive times.

I'm assuming you were referring to survival of the fittest, which is commonly misunderstood to be survival of the strongest.

What survival of the fittest actually means is survival of those most adaptive to change, which is not at all what you are describing.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#332
post #214

Why do these articles always start with a story about a person? I see this in nearly all articles from american news papers. It's strange. Seems like a paper from a young student who needs to get his 3000 wordcount. It just bloats the article and makes it difficult to get the information out of it.

Because it is a feature article, not a news or news analysis story. The latter types have a very different 'pyramidal structure' where the most salient facts are in the opening sentences and each subsequent paragraph adds less vital supporting information and colour. That story structure was specifically designed so that as different editions of the paper came out, if a story needed to be cut it could be essentially cut from the bottom in ever increasing amounts without it needing to be be re-written; in extremis being cut all the way back to the opening sentence, in which case it would simply be a 'news in brief' or Nib item.

Feature stories have typically attempted to hook the reader not through a news lead, but though a colour intro - and one technique is to introduce an abstract issue by relating it through a case-study. You may not like them, but when done well they can work.

Being done well, however means that the case study should be fairly short and there shouldn't be a mismatch between headline promising one thing and annoying the reader when the opening paragraphs don't deliver.

In traditional print, the combination of headline, subhead and design combined gives you an idea of the type of article you are about to read. However when the headline is simply posted as a link, it can feel like bait-and-switch. You go in expecting a pithy summary of the issues, you get a feature article.

This is a side effect of the way the story is posted, rather than a particular problem with the journalism, in my opinion, though I do think the initial anecdotage is a bit leisurely and meandering in this case, for my taste.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We develop drugs and medical practices to artificially extend our lives. We build gigantic civilizations and trade goods around the globe. We take the coffee beans from a farmer in a poor nation undergoing drought, pay that farmer between $0.07-$0.50 per kilo of coffee, and then sell that kilo in a coffee shop (after roasting and brewing) for about $70. We aren't natural. We don't need natural evolutionary states. We…

None of that is my responsibility. I'm not obligated to help anyone but myself. Nobody asked me for consent before flinging me into existence, and now I have to follow all these rules that people make up? I don't need "unnatural, human-oriented, ethical states". I'm perfectly happy with a state where I can acquire as many resources as possible, even if that incurs a significant cost to others.

> I'm perfectly happy with a state where I can acquire as many resources as possible, even if that incurs a significant cost to others.

I'm not going to judge you on moral grounds. Instead, consider what would happen if everyone lived like that. What kind of world would we have? I think it would be a hellish dog-eat-dog world.

You may believe that the world is already that way, but at the moment, there is a lot of kindness, compassion and consideration too. Instead of that, if everyone had the attitude of "I got mine, f* you", the world would be unimaginably worse than it is now.

Moreover, that kind of living is unsustainable in the long run. If you collect as many resources as possible to the detriment of others, sooner or later others would try to snatch those back from you, even by violence.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#334
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can share 5% of your hunt to keep the lazy dog from attacking you while you sleep. Is it 'fair'? No. Is it a wise move? Maybe.

Or I can eliminate that dog so I don't have to share my 5% of the kill every single time.

Or the other dogs can pack together to eliminate you.

Considering the number of times this has happened in human history, any ideas of kingly invincibility you may have are unlikely to be realistic.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#335
post #175

If there are only 19 bones for every 20 dogs, then it doesn't matter how good a bone hunter they all are there will always be one dog disappointed and the other 19 will be grateful for the bone no matter how thin and weedy it is. Systemically the 'interest rate targeting' approach starts to tighten up policy when unemployment gets below 5% - which they consider 'full employment' even though 1 in 20 haven't got jobs.…

There is something wrong with this: "There must always be more jobs available than people that want them, not slightly fewer." Even at 5% unemployment, your condition can be satisfied. For example, jobs might be unfilled because the candidates are unwilling to move. The candidates might be unqualified... shall we hire a random person as a brain surgeon? There could be a dozen job openings per person, and still the un…

> The candidates might be unqualified... shall we hire a random person as a brain surgeon?

I know you've chosen this because you think it's a reductio ad absurdum counterxample, but really, if the market is desperately short of brain surgeons, you might think it would create more, cheaper places at medical schools.

Medicine is a uniquely restrictive market, hemmed in by legal protections and a labor guild system, but some version of this dynamic is operating in many sectors of the American economy: Companies refuse to pay for training, then whine that they can't find suitable candidates.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to make a point or rallying against anything. I'm simply saying that I work hard to acquire resources for myself and will never give them away. We can all make moral/ethical/humane arguments about equality and fairness but I simply don't care. If that makes me unintelligent, then I suppose that's just something I'll have to accept.

Are you really working hard, or are you working in IT, in a first world country?

Probably in finance, at a guess.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#337

America is a country of huge wealth. Wealthy in natural resources, capital equipment, labor ... fucking everything. And yet we have such terrible poverty. When I read stories about poor people in America, always there is lurking just below the surface the key element of scarcity. Not food. Not transportation. Not clothing. Not even, surprisingly, health care. The missing factor in all these broken lives is the simple…

Markets alone won't do shit of it's not profitable. That's why you need government regulations. Some things should not be driven by profit.

Thinking otherwise is delusional.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#338

The lady in the example is 33 has a diabetes, 3 kids to support, and presumably also have to support for her disabled mother. To make the matter even more sad she had no higher level education. I can imagine how hard and tough it is for her. But I don't think raising the minimum wage or a mandated salary increase/promotion is the real solution here. The real solutions would be to: 1. Educate parents on the importance…

I would expect US minimums to be far greater than developing countries.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#340

It's not like meritocracy is completely unrelated to real life, it matters in a certain regime. However, if like Vanessa, you're born to lesser circumstances, you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. Similarly, if you are born to very well off standards, even if you're a dope and spend money from Dad's inheritance on cocaine, sure, you won't be successful but you'll still have a net of some kind. You ca…

>you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. This is a traditional, stereotypical belief that in order to escape poverty you have to work harder. This is old understanding of meritocracy and it's no longer valid. The new meritocracy is that you have to learn harder. And now, given all the learning resources available for free on the internet (which is also very accessible nowadays) it's probably the best t…

Learning costs money, especially as an adult.

You still need to cover your basic expenses, homeless or not.

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