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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

171–180 of 632 posts

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#171
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine an extremely simplified model where all immigrants to a city are experienced taxi drivers. There's more demand for goods, but probably only a small uptick in demand for taxis. The supply of available taxi drivers has gone way up however.

So you believe taxi drivers never need to use taxis?

One taxi driver usually generates demand less than what one taxi driver usually supplies.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you've mentioned the real cost of food and farming in the US is effectively heavily subsidized by the fact that many of said farms employ illegal immigrants for labor, both because they refuse to pay minimum wage and because Americans as a whole seem to refuse to do said jobs. Legal immigration has a comparatively small effect due to the fact that they're part of the skilled labor force and generally fill gaps in…

If we raised farm labor wages by 40% it would cost the consumer less than $25 a year. ”For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a four percent increase in retail prices (0.30 farm share of retail prices x 0.33 farm labor share of farm revenue = 10 percent, farm labor costs rise 40 percent, and 0.4 x 10 = 3.6 percent). If farm wages rose 40 percent, and the increase were passe…

I dont think the average consumer wants to pay $25 more per year.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#173

America is a country of huge wealth. Wealthy in natural resources, capital equipment, labor ... fucking everything. And yet we have such terrible poverty. When I read stories about poor people in America, always there is lurking just below the surface the key element of scarcity. Not food. Not transportation. Not clothing. Not even, surprisingly, health care. The missing factor in all these broken lives is the simple…

Yes, it's all about density. Source: living in South Korea.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#174
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you cannot call capitalism any successful economic system. China proved that a protectionist model with colossal government intervention can successfully reduce poverty.

China proved that you can reduce poverty in spite of those things. There is precisely zero evidence that those policies have done anything to reduce poverty, and a mountain of evidence that those policies, in general, exacerbate poverty.

What do you think China did to reduce poverty?

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#175

If there are only 19 bones for every 20 dogs, then it doesn't matter how good a bone hunter they all are there will always be one dog disappointed and the other 19 will be grateful for the bone no matter how thin and weedy it is. Systemically the 'interest rate targeting' approach starts to tighten up policy when unemployment gets below 5% - which they consider 'full employment' even though 1 in 20 haven't got jobs.…

There is something wrong with this: "There must always be more jobs available than people that want them, not slightly fewer."

Even at 5% unemployment, your condition can be satisfied. For example, jobs might be unfilled because the candidates are unwilling to move. The candidates might be unqualified... shall we hire a random person as a brain surgeon? There could be a dozen job openings per person, and still the unemployment rate remains above zero.

As you move toward 0% unemployment, you push harder and harder against the problem of unsuitable workers. Reaching 0% is a bit like traveling at the speed of light: it is an unreachable goal, with difficulty rising dramatically as you get close.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#176
Americans tried to other "solutions" peddled by politicians, economists, NYT and other pundits. In fact losing jobs and trying those other solutions is how they got here...

Those other solutions suck even more.

Except for a close to 10% that does as good as ever and even better, and who are the ones proposing those other "solutions"...

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The illegals are all picking strawberries for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our food. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society.

So you’re saying those illegals are basically slaves? Wouldn’t the ethical thing to prevent illegal immigration into the country knowing that these people may be abused?

Well, I would personally argue the ethical thing would be to pay workers a fair wage.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#178

America is a country of huge wealth. Wealthy in natural resources, capital equipment, labor ... fucking everything. And yet we have such terrible poverty. When I read stories about poor people in America, always there is lurking just below the surface the key element of scarcity. Not food. Not transportation. Not clothing. Not even, surprisingly, health care. The missing factor in all these broken lives is the simple…

Well at least the Americans are not standing in queues.

Seriously, I wonder why this scarcity for quite many is not highlighted as failure of capitalism, why the bailout of banks with tax-money is not marked as "capitalism and free market has failed" just like communism is?

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#179

If there are only 19 bones for every 20 dogs, then it doesn't matter how good a bone hunter they all are there will always be one dog disappointed and the other 19 will be grateful for the bone no matter how thin and weedy it is. Systemically the 'interest rate targeting' approach starts to tighten up policy when unemployment gets below 5% - which they consider 'full employment' even though 1 in 20 haven't got jobs.…

>If there are only 19 bones for every 20 dogs, then it doesn't matter how good a bone hunter they all are there will always be one dog disappointed and the other 19 will be grateful for the bone no matter how thin and weedy it is.

Or, if the dogs are intelligent, they could split those 19 bones to 20 pieces...

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#180

It's not like meritocracy is completely unrelated to real life, it matters in a certain regime. However, if like Vanessa, you're born to lesser circumstances, you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. Similarly, if you are born to very well off standards, even if you're a dope and spend money from Dad's inheritance on cocaine, sure, you won't be successful but you'll still have a net of some kind. You ca…

> the meritocratic myth I've been around to see people over decades, and how their decisions affect their lives. Meritocracy is not a myth. Where people wind up is very much a consequence of their choices. This isn't the Soviet Union where one is assigned a career, a job and an apartment. I've seen immigrants arrive here with nothing and become millionaires. That's why everyone wants to come to America. The opportuni…

>I've been around to see people over decades, and how their decisions affect their lives. Meritocracy is not a myth. Where people wind up is very much a consequence of their choices.

Choices is not the same as skills. Meritocracy is about merit, not choices.

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