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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#521

My biggest gripe with most automatic transmissions is a feature commonly referred to as creep. Let off the brake pedal and the car moves forward. Depending on the car it’s more pronounced. Rarely do you have an automatic that will actually remain at a constant speed or slightly slow down when you lift off the gas. This is a huge issue and I’ll contend it’s a major contributor to traffic in urban environments. In a ma…

I used to love my stick shift, now I love my electric car. It has the same lack of creep and built-in engine braking.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#522
A popular topic on HN is how Europe does XYZ better than the US. Particularly in traffic, actually. But here, the Americans truly got it right.

Most people just want a car to get them from A to B. Manual has little to go for it among non-car-geeks, other than "people think it's normal" (in Europe). Automatic is sold as an expensive option here but that makes no sense to me - how can a chip be more expensive to produce than a physical gear box? I assume it isn't and the auto companies just charge what they think people are willing to pay.

I'm glad that EVs are taking hold because then, finally, automatic will become the default. It breaks a ridiculous habit that benefits nobody.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#523

My biggest gripe with most automatic transmissions is a feature commonly referred to as creep. Let off the brake pedal and the car moves forward. Depending on the car it’s more pronounced. Rarely do you have an automatic that will actually remain at a constant speed or slightly slow down when you lift off the gas. This is a huge issue and I’ll contend it’s a major contributor to traffic in urban environments. In a ma…

I used to love my stick shift, now I love my electric car. It has the same lack of creep and built-in engine braking.

What kind of vehicle is it, specifically?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you live that you can stay in 2nd and crawl. Where I live, the moment you leave a few inches between your front bumper and the car in front of you, someone is guaranteed to cut you off and force you to brake to prevent hitting them. When I say "inches", I mean inches - 6-8 inches of space is enough for someone to think "I'll just squeeze in here".

Do you never merge or change lanes in heavy traffic? Because if you’ve ever done any of those things, you rely on people leaving space and letting you in. Why deny others the same opportunities? Driving in traffic is a cooperative activity. The only times you don’t need to accommodate and be accommodated by other drivers are when there are hardly any around.

> Why deny others the same opportunities?

Almost exclusively these people will zip around a line and force their way in at the end. Even kindergartners are taught budging in line is not good.

Why is this the problem on the people actually being considerate and are in the correct lane at the appropriate time?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

Second in a car is optimistic. I often have to put it in first and just let the engine tick over. Some people don't think their car can do this. I'm not sure if that's true or if they are just bad drivers, though. My car will happily roll in third if it's flat. I find I'm usually able to keep rolling in gear, which doesn't use any more fuel than just idling, and not apply the brakes in most "stop and go" traffic.

This is what I usually try and do when stuck in a queue, especially on the motorway. First or second depending on the speed of the traffic, clutch up, foot off accelerator. Pointless racing to the stopped car in front of you only to have to stop and start again.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you live that you can stay in 2nd and crawl. Where I live, the moment you leave a few inches between your front bumper and the car in front of you, someone is guaranteed to cut you off and force you to brake to prevent hitting them. When I say "inches", I mean inches - 6-8 inches of space is enough for someone to think "I'll just squeeze in here".

Hello New Jersey? :) I worry there's a sampling bias going on. When I commuted to work, I'd keep the same tight pattern everyone else used, and it felt like any time I let up, some jerk would take advantage. Then, for a while, I was suddenly paid to go between buildings on opposite sides of one of the worst traffic cities in the US. I always left with plenty of time and no urgency, so I would just stubbornly maintain…

FWIW when in traffic I always try to maintain enough distance ahead of me that I do not have to ever stop completely, and that I can also hopefully not use the brake.

I swear I've watched traffic clear up around me. Of course it's anecdotal, but it tends to keep things moving, even if slowly, rather than bringing everything to a halt.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#527

A popular topic on HN is how Europe does XYZ better than the US. Particularly in traffic, actually. But here, the Americans truly got it right. Most people just want a car to get them from A to B. Manual has little to go for it among non-car-geeks, other than "people think it's normal" (in Europe). Automatic is sold as an expensive option here but that makes no sense to me - how can a chip be more expensive to produc…

> Automatic is sold as an expensive option here but that makes no sense to me - how can a chip be more expensive to produce than a physical gear box?

I'm not sure what you mean by "chip" here -- all cars have gear boxes (in some form -- you need to have a way of converting the engine's rotation into wheel rotation without stalling or overworking the engine) the question is how they work and what controls the gear ratio. A manual gearbox is actually very simple conceptually and mechanically, resulting in cheaper hardware (and the repair costs are quite cheap too).

Common automatics use a fluid coupling as their gearbox with a torque converter, which is a more complicated piece of machinery (with more significant repair costs in the medium-term -- a clutch replacement is $1000 while an automatic transmission rebuild is $5000). So it makes some sense that they are more expensive -- though it's not always the case that automatics are more expensive to buy (it's only really the case of cheaper cars that they're always more expensive).

The only kind of automatic I can think of that is a "chip" would be a double-clutch transmission (which might appear like an automatic to a user), but as the name suggests under the hood it is two manual transmissions with a computer trying to predict the future to know what gear is needed next). Those are even more expensive because they are ridiculously complicated, and probably require some sort of license from the manufacturer to sell.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#528

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

I've never had a huge issue with driving in stop-go traffic with a manual. It really depends on the type of car you're driving though, I guess. Driving a sports car with a grippy clutch is going to be painful. Driving a $750, 20 year old Mazda with a 2 L engine and a soft clutch isn't too bad at all, you just sort of ride the clutch (which I am aware isn't great for it). I think that there is nothing that beats drivi…

funny enough, my 2002 protege had a sporty clutch that def too some getting used to.

that said, I'd take it oven an automatic anyday.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#529

One thing I'd love to see in modern manual transmission sports cars is a lockout to prevent mechanical over-revs. It would be extremely cheap and simple to engineer—knowing the current RPM and gear ratios, it would just be a matter of a servo motor actuating a bar, physically blocking the shifter from engaging gears that would cause a mechanical overrev. If done right, the driver wouldn't even notice it was there, un…

If that servo fails to unlock, though, now you can't shift into certain gears. I thought that a centrifugal clutch disengage mechanism would solve this. Centrifugal clutches are already common in scooters - the clutch engages gradually as you rev above idle rpms. My theoretical feature is basically the opposite: a centrifuge that disengages at a given RPM. You _can_ shift into 1st at 100mph but your clutch will quick…

Re-engineering the clutch sounds like a lot more work than adding a little servo. (Or two: one for 1/3/5 and one for 2/4.) And yeah, like anything in the car I guess it could fail, but something so simple could be made very robust—and if it did fail, it wouldn't be catastrophic. Would also be simple enough to add a mechanical override screw accessible under the shifter boot or something like that.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#530
post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you never merge or change lanes in heavy traffic? Because if you’ve ever done any of those things, you rely on people leaving space and letting you in. Why deny others the same opportunities? Driving in traffic is a cooperative activity. The only times you don’t need to accommodate and be accommodated by other drivers are when there are hardly any around.

I have a casual theory that driving in the US relies upon every individual enforcing their own idea of what the rules should be, inherent to our culture. I really enjoy driving in Europe, but maybe it's delusional. There's an aggressive indifference that I perceive. We should mostly be on bikes and scooters anyway.

I have driven in both the US and a few European countries, and I would disagree with your proposed cause but agree somewhat with the effect. Having driven on long-distance road trips in the US, drivers are noticeably more competent than in (sub)urban highways, probably because the latter are filled with drivers who don't drive as much at those speeds. This is often inherently true in many western European countries in which driving usually has reasonable public transit alternatives so the selection of drivers on roads may tend to be more skilled and experienced.

That being said, in some European cities drivers are not very keen to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, even when pedestrians are already in the median "island." I haven't noticed any US city of a similar size that had drivers quite so negligent about crosswalks.

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