Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How America lost its love for the stick shift

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 729 posts

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#421

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

philwelch wrote: post #396
skywhopper wrote: post #343

I love driving stick, but I have no illusions that I make better decisions about what gear to be in when than good automatics/CVTs, and I know I'm not saving gas the way I drive. Now, many automatics still bother me or even feel dangerous with their sluggishness, but there are great ones out there that I am happy to drive. But the American market is definitely to the point now where it makes total sense to just elimi…

Learning to drive stick is still a useful skill if you want to operate heavy trucks or ride motorcycles, neither of which tend to have an automatic transmission. It’s not an option that I would want to go away. Also, I might have used valet parking once in my life. Handing my car over to someone who can’t drive stick is something I’m willing to live without—especially when you remember that many car thieves can’t dri…

Most big trucks and farm equipment are automatic now (source: family of truckers and farmers). The takeover was quite recent but I don't know any truck companies buying manuals these days other than owner-drivers who are enthusiasts about their trucks too (eg the type to modify and do them up).

I'm a massive car nut, I've owned and (amateur-)raced dozens of cars over the last 20 years and always went manual, but a couple years ago I switched to auto due to a bad leg and honestly, if my leg miraculously got better, I'd stay with an auto. Modern automatics are amazing. They shift faster than I ever could, and performance autos can still engine-brake into corners etc. I'm very much a convert for pure performance reasons as well as easy/comfort reasons.

I don't want manuals to go away though, and I don't think they will. There's lots of car manufacturers that still cater to small niche groups because these days with populations the size they are, a small niche group is still enough people to profit off. I think we'll still see performance cars and motorcycles with manuals for many years to come, but all mainstream/bulk cars will be auto only.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#422

Post by trentmb »

int_handler wrote: post #313
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

> but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will.

Good- I'd rather you focus on the world around you.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#423

Post by ubernostrum »

chrisweekly wrote: post #413
0x00000000 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best you can do is increase the glide time between stops Do you understand what causes traffic? That harder you brake, the bigger and longer the wave of people braking behind you will be. By braking less hard, you are causing less traffic. And yes, 99% of people driving in traffic are idiots who don't know how to drive or they wouldn't be tailgating and slamming the brakes every 6 feet wasting thousands of hour…

You know what else increases traffic? Merging too soon. A good friend of mine and I have a standing argument about proper behavior when, driving, one encounters a "lane closed ahead" sign. He insists that the right thing to do is to abandon the to-be-closed lane as soon as feasible [tangent: he also gets mad at drivers who want to merge later, describing them as "cutters"], while I maintain that the best way to minim…

What's right, if drivers are doing it, is to zipper at the point of the merge.

But that's a big "if" -- too many drivers are like your friend, and work themselves up into a blood-boiling rage at the thought of someone "cutting" by engaging in proper zipper merging. Tell your friend the problem is he's thinking of the merge as a competition with a "winner" (person who ends up in front) and "loser" (person who ends up behind), instead of looking for the option that maximizes efficiency for everyone.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#424

Post by H1Supreme »

int_handler wrote: post #313
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

I agree with the engagement aspect, but I'm sure dual clutch equipped cars are just as fun to drive. I rode a motorcycle with an auto-shifter, I didn't miss using the clutch (on up-shifts) one bit.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#425

Post by JshWright »

emodendroket wrote: post #402
ulises314 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what you are supposed to do, isn't? I think most (all?) car clutches are dry, so that means that not going to neutral at a stop would eat your clutch in a few months.

From what I have observed, many people do not, which would explain how they talk about their legs killing them. I don't like driving in heavy traffic, but I don't like it any more in an automatic car.

It's more effort to push the clutch in and out between stops (keeping the pedal in doesn't take much effort, it's moving the pedal that takes work).

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#426

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

developer2 wrote: post #407
skywhopper wrote: post #343

I love driving stick, but I have no illusions that I make better decisions about what gear to be in when than good automatics/CVTs, and I know I'm not saving gas the way I drive. Now, many automatics still bother me or even feel dangerous with their sluggishness, but there are great ones out there that I am happy to drive. But the American market is definitely to the point now where it makes total sense to just elimi…

>> Valet parking is downright dangerous. My wife's car had its clutch literally melted by an incompetent valet driver, and the car was barely driveable when we got it back. As someone who will only ever own manual transmissions, that's terrifying. Over the years I've had a handful of occasions where "mandatory valet" has been presented to me. I always refuse. Most of the time, I've been allowed to park my own car and…

To be fair, most of those "strangers working minimum wage" have been doing the job a while, and are more experienced with driving all kinds of vehicles than you or I would ever be. I worked A/V in a hotel for years, and being a car nut, I hung with the valets during breaks to chat cars, and a lot of those guys are in the job because they love cars and want to drive as many different ones as they can.

Yes there's always the chance of a valet who hasn't got a clue, but there's a chance of that in any job you've ever had contact with. We're just very attached to our cars (rightly so, mine is my prized possession!) so we're suitably and rightly nervous when handing them over. I'll do valet parking, but my car has a valet mode that limits the horsepower and is an auto so I don't have to worry about fried clutches anymore.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#427

Post by aplummer »

trentmb wrote: post #422
int_handler wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

> but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. Good- I'd rather you focus on the world around you.

I think if you drive a manual the OP sees it as being _more_ involved in driving and more aware.

There are some situations where driving a manual incorrectly is more dangerous (clutch coasting) but others where the extra control is better (Ute off-road).

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#428

Post by cheeze »

chrisdhoover wrote: post #345
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

That works in many areas, but no chance anywhere which has much traffic.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#429

Post by JshWright »

brenschluss wrote: post #351
r00fus wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pure conjecture. You cannot control how traffic behaves, and if you constantly let people go in front of you, people behind you will get irrationally angry (danger exposure). Yeah you can smooth things out and inject a bit more zen into your experience by accelerating and decelerating more gently and leaving a larger than normal gap, but stop&go simply exists and is a pain even with an automatic. Adaptive cru…

Here’s an experiment proving this idea: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607841/a-single-autonomou...

That's great in a single lane. What happens in the real world when the moment you leave a gap, the car in an adjacent lane cuts over to fill it?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#430

Post by freddie_mercury »

chrisdhoover wrote: post #345
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

> I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics.

A simple hypothesis like this is easy to test: does stop and go traffic exist in places that are predominantly manual transmissions?

I live in Asia and I can tell you unequivocally that, yes, stop and go traffic still exists even when every single person has a manual transmission.

Post reply on HN