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To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

nytimes.com

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Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#141

Post by cxseven »

jhbadger wrote: post #103
housingpost wrote: post #2

I love the idea of libraries, but where I live most of them are almost as bad as public transportation. People fighting, being loud, people on drugs asking for money, so it's difficult to get comfortable to sit and read. Sadly you have to go to the suburbs to get a quiet library where you don't get hassled. Amazon certainly isn't the solution, but neither is having libraries be the daytime homeless shelter.

Is it actually your experience of these things or is it just what you've been told? As somebody who lives in a big US city which my Midwestern small-town relatives sees as "scary", I use public transit daily and the library weekly. There aren't really any druggies or panhandlers on the buses or trains or libraries. There are some on the actual streets, and that's unfortunate, but not nearly the degree that all the "u…

If you're talking about one of the few US cities like New York where the vast majority of people use public transportation, then that's why it's not going to match other people's experiences where public transportation is mainly used by people who have no other option.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#142

Post by cxseven »

int_19h wrote: post #127
noxToken wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ever been to an Episcopalian service? I've been to a few dozen at a few different churches in a few different states. They are a split from Catholicism, so the rituals during service can seem familiar. However, the sermon feels like your father or grandfather (and some cases mother or grandmother) reassuring you for the week, and telling you to be your best self. It's about as liberal as mainstream Western religion g…

Thing is, the denominations that tend to be less fire and brimstone, are also less communal. I always assumed that it comes from strength (or lack thereof) of shared convictions.

They have convictions, too. The more salient differentiator is probably extrinsic vs. intrinsic motivations, i.e. the need for a church to be a place to show off or enforce virtues

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#143

Post by moorhosj »

dominotw wrote: post #118
moorhosj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to work for everyone in my neighborhood. Homeless, wealthy, children, young and old all using the local library. They have work training programs and children’s programs.

where is this if i may ask?

Logan Square in Chicago. Chicago is known for having an excellent library system. A couple examples; all the major museums have passes at each library that can be "checked out" for free entry [1], Harold Washington Library has a Maker Lab with 3D printers, design software and laser and electronic cutters [2], there is a program called YOUmedia where some libraries have full sound editing equipment (Chance the Rapper used this to make his first mixtape) [3]. I can also get any book delivered to my local library for pickup through the CPL phone app.

[1] https://chicagoonthecheap.com/free-museum-admission-chicago-...

[2] https://www.chipublib.org/maker-lab/

[3] https://www.chipublib.org/programs-and-partnerships/youmedia...

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#144

Post by moorhosj »

closeparen wrote: post #134
moorhosj wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a "kids library" different than an "adult library"? I use the library in my neighborhood and am an adult, is that ok?

All the public libraries I've been in have a distinct adult wing and children's wing, though under the same roof. Aside from the collections, the children's wing is colorfully decorated with ample play areas, child-proofed computers, and higher noise tolerance. Parents generally feel comfortable letting their kids wander the children's section unsupervised.

So...it's all the same library. Again, in my big city people seem to get along just fine in our libraries. There is a kids section and I see plenty of parents, caretakers and nannies with kids there every day. Meanwhile, people in the other sections go about their business using the internet or studying.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#145

Post by 3rdAccount »

int_19h wrote: post #123
Alex3917 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> STEM exists because science, technology, engineering, and math don't get the focus they need in the standard US education system. Pretty much every HS kid in America is required to take at least 3 full years of math and science if not 4. How exactly are they not getting the focus over art? Schools are cutting art programs left and right in order to allocate more resources toward things that get covered on standardi…

Speaking as a foreigner who asked many Americans what kind of math and physics they learn in school, you guys aren't doing anywhere near enough of both if you want to stay competitive. I've met college students who don't know what was middle school math for us - and not because they forgot.

That's what i try to tell people and they just don't seem to understand how much of an impact this will have over the long term.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#146

Post by int_19h »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #140
int_19h wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A system of community ownership of resources in order to benefit all members is the definition of "communist" The definition of socialism is shared ownership of the means of production . A public park isn't socialism. A nationalized industry is. The definition of communism is socialism + post-scarcity, ostensibly making economic classes redundant.

I wasn't talking figuratively, that's literally the definition.

I wasn't talking figuratively either. The literal definition of communism is not as you gave it, at least not according to the people who devised the ideology and came up with the name for it. It's all about the means of production - for Marxists, the entire human history, and especially the structure of society, revolves around "modes of production", which are ultimately defined by the relative positions of productive members of society wrt means of production and each other, creating economic classes.

To some extent, I guess, a library (or rather the knowledge contained in it) could also be claimed to be the means of production. But I don't think that's the consensus among the adherents.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#147

Post by pbhjpbhj »

int_19h wrote: post #146
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't talking figuratively, that's literally the definition.

I wasn't talking figuratively either. The literal definition of communism is not as you gave it, at least not according to the people who devised the ideology and came up with the name for it. It's all about the means of production - for Marxists, the entire human history, and especially the structure of society, revolves around "modes of production", which are ultimately defined by the relative positions of producti…

communism ˈkɒmjʊnɪz(ə)m/ noun noun: communism

.... a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.

.... synonyms: collectivism, state ownership, socialism, radical socialism;

(Oxford Pocket English Dictionary, via Google)

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#148

Post by int_19h »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #147
int_19h wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't talking figuratively either. The literal definition of communism is not as you gave it, at least not according to the people who devised the ideology and came up with the name for it. It's all about the means of production - for Marxists, the entire human history, and especially the structure of society, revolves around "modes of production", which are ultimately defined by the relative positions of producti…

communism ˈkɒmjʊnɪz(ə)m/ noun noun: communism .... a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs. .... synonyms: collectivism, state ownership, socialism, radical socialism; (Oxford Pocket English Dictionary, via Google)

That's a vast oversimplification, as is the case with most dictionary definitions. You need to go to primary sources - starting with "The Capital" - to discover the nuances.

The notion that communism equals state ownership is particularly funny, given that Marx (and all his followers) defined communism as a stateless society.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#149

Post by 3rdAccount »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #131
3rdAccount wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh...not a big fan of "STEAM" as opposed to "STEM". STEM exists because science, technology, engineering, and math don't get the focus they need in the standard US education system. There is also the arts of music, and drawing/painting/crafts, P.E., History, Literature that are still important, but take the focus away. If you say...well STEM is important, but let's not forget art, pretty soon you'll say well we als…

Frankly I think there are a lot bigger problems in the US schooling system that what are balance of ceramics:chemistry should be. (Besides, the chemistry teacher let me borrow lithium salts to spice up my ceramics glaze) FWIW my art classes were basically "get familiar with the viscosity, stickiness, rate of evaporation, and rigidity of a new material every week" class. I'm much better able to reason about interactio…

That's a use case I wasn't familiar with, but I'm not sure how typical it is.

Libraries are awesome:)

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