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We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

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Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#11
post #9

This is the kind of blather I expect from business types without hardware experience. The issue with NB-IoT right now is chicken vs egg. NB-IoT stuff currently is limited to expensive modules. Why? Because the carriers aren't rolling this out yet and when it is it's expensive. So, nobody is going to make a chip for it since the volume isn't going to be there for a while (Intel, for example, just pulled out of making…

What will prompt carriers to roll this out?

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#12

We at Hiber [0] are working on an actual low-power solution, which will give the device a way to transmit once a day to a sattelite with a custom 144 bytes user payload. The device location is already encoded, so you can focus on filling those 144 bytes with anything you'd like. You'll have global coverage and a central system to extract the data. [0] https://hiber.global/

Claimed pole to pole coverage tells me this is based on an embedded Iridium SBD modem.

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#13
post #9

This is the kind of blather I expect from business types without hardware experience. The issue with NB-IoT right now is chicken vs egg. NB-IoT stuff currently is limited to expensive modules. Why? Because the carriers aren't rolling this out yet and when it is it's expensive. So, nobody is going to make a chip for it since the volume isn't going to be there for a while (Intel, for example, just pulled out of making…

Intel pulling out is far from a canary in the coal mine. The rest of your post is fairly accurate though! Background: Intel has serious production issues with their latest 10nm process, meaning their x86 chips and LTE modems for Apple are filling most of their capacity to manufacture chips on the existing 14nm process. I doubt Intel has LTE modem designs that work on older processes, and NB-IOT being unproven, low vo…

Actually, ultra-low power devices (ie months-/years-long battery life) are probably better suited for older technology nodes, say 40+ nm for bulk, or 22+ nm for SoI. Standby leakage power is going to be too high on the lower nodes. Lasting months/years on a coin cell means sub-1 uA standby combined with infrequent, short-lived wake cycles. There's no real way around this until you go to energy harvesting, and right now that's limited to very very low power, single-function devices.

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#14
post #4

We at Hiber [0] are working on an actual low-power solution, which will give the device a way to transmit once a day to a sattelite with a custom 144 bytes user payload. The device location is already encoded, so you can focus on filling those 144 bytes with anything you'd like. You'll have global coverage and a central system to extract the data. [0] https://hiber.global/

We would like to evaluate this. Currently looking at Sigfox, space.fleet and others. I sent a message via the Hiber contact page.

You might also be interested in http://myriota.com/

It's essentially a long life "tag" (10 years depending on duty cycle) that can read sensors and go direct to satellite. Funded by Boeing. I'm not involved in the company, but in the last 20 years have regularly crossed paths with one of the founders at Information Theory conferences. He's a very smart guy.

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#15
post #4

We at Hiber [0] are working on an actual low-power solution, which will give the device a way to transmit once a day to a sattelite with a custom 144 bytes user payload. The device location is already encoded, so you can focus on filling those 144 bytes with anything you'd like. You'll have global coverage and a central system to extract the data. [0] https://hiber.global/

We would like to evaluate this. Currently looking at Sigfox, space.fleet and others. I sent a message via the Hiber contact page.

If you want to experiment with LoRaWAN, we open sourced our Network Service: https://github.com/exploratoryengineering/congress

We also open sourced our module design (EE-02) that uses nRF52 as the MCU: https://github.com/ExploratoryEngineering/ee0x-hardware

You can buy the modules here, but I think stocks might be running low. (However, if anyone needs larger numbers of modules we can put you into contact with the factory we use for manufacturing them): https://shop.exploratory.engineering/

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#17
Let's be honest, LTE was always oversold in terms of its technical limitations. The first reference to it that I can recall seeing (years ago) actually was describing LTE Advanced (~150 Mb/s), but conveniently left out that information.

I know that it had been shown in testing to reach 200 Mb/s - call me when real world usage data can show that kind of result.

In reality, the kind of progress that @barbegal mentions has done more to advance device capabilities, but for something that was initially sold as a 10x speed improvement over 3GPP, it hasn't really panned out.

The telecom folks make a bunch of noise about how you can replace a home connection with these kinds of technologies, but until prices come down and speeds go (way) up, the wireline people don't have much to worry about.

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#18
No idea why this article takes the view it does on LTE based on 1 device? ... We do low power data loggers on 3G and now just starting doing LTE, and power usage is really good for LTE compared to 3G. We aren't rechargeable (though we do have options for that), and we do 3+ years depending on the scenario. We have 1000s of devices in the field and have been doing this for quite a number of years. LTE is going to let us do more for the same life span, or the same for a longer lifespan.

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#19
post #9

This is the kind of blather I expect from business types without hardware experience. The issue with NB-IoT right now is chicken vs egg. NB-IoT stuff currently is limited to expensive modules. Why? Because the carriers aren't rolling this out yet and when it is it's expensive. So, nobody is going to make a chip for it since the volume isn't going to be there for a while (Intel, for example, just pulled out of making…

I am excited to see this come out:

https://www.nordicsemi.com/eng/Products/Low-Power-Cellular-I...

Seems promising, but I don't see the current consumption documented anywhere yet.

Re: We Can Stop Pretending LTE-M Is a Low-Power WAN

#20
post #18

No idea why this article takes the view it does on LTE based on 1 device? ... We do low power data loggers on 3G and now just starting doing LTE, and power usage is really good for LTE compared to 3G. We aren't rechargeable (though we do have options for that), and we do 3+ years depending on the scenario. We have 1000s of devices in the field and have been doing this for quite a number of years. LTE is going to let…

Hi Keith, I am interested, who is "we"?
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