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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#361
America lost its love of more than just the stick shift. I regularly find myself around people who just simply can’t drive safely. They don’t use their mirrors, they don’t know how to stop rapidly in emergency situations; I’m not surprised no one drives a manual anymore.

On top of this, we pretty much hand out drivers licenses like fucking flyers in this country. Just stand in line and earn yours.

If you’ve ever been on a road in Europe you’ll see a dramatically different scenario. Free flowing traffic, everyone seems to see everyone else around them; people are paying attention and know their cars.

The market for automated vehicles is ripe because we’re fucking morons behind the wheel, and somehow we’re ok with that.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best you can do is increase the glide time between stops Do you understand what causes traffic? That harder you brake, the bigger and longer the wave of people braking behind you will be. By braking less hard, you are causing less traffic. And yes, 99% of people driving in traffic are idiots who don't know how to drive or they wouldn't be tailgating and slamming the brakes every 6 feet wasting thousands of hour…

I have somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 hours operating a stick vehicle in high congestion traffic. I went to engineering school and studied traffic both academically, and experientially. Yes, I understand traffic better than you do. Do you understand traffic? I pretty much doubt it. No, 99% of people driving in traffic aren't idiots. About 5% are, and that's all it takes. My most pleasant finding from all those ye…

So how does tailgating people and braking hard and often not make traffic worse? Or is it the same? You didn't explain why you think slowing down more gradually is not better or how tailgating does not cause traffic.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#364

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

But nowadays, to stop quickly in an emergency, shouldn't you simply stomp as hard as you can on the brake while still remembering to stear? Or do you find that people don't even know that?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#365
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think fun has to equal unsafe. Manuals provide an opportunity to have fun doing things like matching downshifts and thinking about what you are doing. Both can be done within the confines of safe, legal operation.

And this is where the MX-5 and other suitably configured cars excel. They give you a sense of motion and acceleration at legal and safe speeds that a typical car won't. Even some that are supposed to be sporty, but define sporty as "more power." Most cars are designed to make you feel nothing and hear nothing. Nothing from the road and nothing from the engine.

It’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I own a few motorcycles and the biggest one has a 450cc motor for this very reason.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#366

I’m a committed manual driver, but I fully grant that dual-clutch transmissions and EV powertrains handily outclass manual transmissions from the perspective of effectiveness (although my casual understanding is that an electric motor without a gearbox is still going to be limited in its ability to provide torque at high rotor speeds). I would consider driving a car relying on either of those technologies, even thoug…

> although my casual understanding is that an electric motor without a gearbox is still going to be limited in its ability to provide torque at high rotor speeds BTW I find your entire comment pretty interesting. So the current top speed on Tesla Models S3X is 155MPH. The Roadster 2 is expected to have a top speed of 250MPH. Is the 155MPH an example of what you're referencing Re: high rotor speed? Thanks.

Less top speed, which is governed by many factors (consider that maintaining any constant speed in a vehicle requires some minimum power output to counter losses to heat/friction throughout the drivetrain and between the vehicle and oncoming air, not to mention the maximum safe operating speed of the drivetrain components themselves), but rather the potential for acceleration. If you look at the torque curve for some power plant, where the independent variable is oscillation speed and the dependent variable is output torque, you'll find that (for some fixed gear ratio between the power plant speed and the wheel speed) the maximum acceleration occurs at the point along that curve where torque is maximized. Electric motors have a much flatter torque curve with respect to rotor RPM than do combustion engines with respect to crankshaft RPM, but they still see a nontrivial drop in torque as rotor speed approaches its operating maximum. Transmissions exist to maximize the driver's access to torque: if you're traveling at 60mph on the highway with your engine spinning at 2K RPM, but your engine makes maximal torque at 4K RPM, you can shift downward to maintain your same vehicle speed while increasing the speed at which your engine turns over, thus giving you enhanced ability to bring your car up to speed before you merge with the lane to the left of you where everyone is driving much faster. A car that loses available torque at high power plant speeds and that lacks the ability to use such gearing to take advantage of optimal power plant torque will be unable to produce as much acceleration at high speeds as a car that has several gear ratios available.

Caveat: I'm just an automotive hobbyist, so if an automotive engineer rolls in and calls bullshit on anything I've said above, they're almost certainly correct.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#367
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think fun has to equal unsafe. Manuals provide an opportunity to have fun doing things like matching downshifts and thinking about what you are doing. Both can be done within the confines of safe, legal operation.

I think GP's point is that people who have fun driving drive more frequently, which is inherently unsafe.

It’s unclear to me that more driving equates to more danger. Driving is currently very unsafe but that is a product of the drivers. If drivers were safer driving itself would also be safer.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#368
post #102
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today. We don't even re-test.

Easy to say from the position of thinking you can't lose your license or have the financial means to deal with such a loss. For a majority of those living in the US the places they live and work have been so fundamentally designed around cars that no alternative form of transit is usable. Busses might run once a day, no sidewalks, no bike lanes amidst 5 layer highways. Even getting out of ones housing development via…

80% of Americans live in cities. It’s entirely possible to reduce our reliance on individual car ownership.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#369

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

I have never owned a deportive car but in my country automatic transmission is not common. For a long time automatic cars were much more expensive.

I have owned manual my entire life and IMHO after the first month driving switching becomes something your brain does automatically, pretty much like biking.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#370
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today. We don't even re-test.

Outside of the East and West coasts and other high density cities, it is difficult to revoke licenses simply because there's no infrastructure in place as an alternative to driving. Large parts of the US today there's no public transport, and even no sidewalks(!) in some places. You could ride a bike, but that requires physicality and drivers aren't exactly bike-friendly. If there was a realistic alternative to drivi…

Agreed that it can’t work everywhere but 80% of Americans live in cities so there are significant populations that don’t need cars.
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