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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#281

Post by buckminster »

catdog wrote: post #205
crazygringo wrote: post #99

Except the article doesn't answer it at all. Why did America lose its love... when other countries (e.g. rich European countries) continue to buy majority stick? All of the reasons given for the US presumably apply to e.g. Germany too, no? Except no transformation there...

In Germany one reason might be that basically everyone learns to drive with the stick so it's the normal. To get a drivers license it's mandatory to go to a driving school and drive quite a lot of hours under supervision of an instructor usually using a car belonging to the school. While it's theoretically possible to use an automatic car nobody does that because you then are not allowed to drive a manual one afterwa…

> While it's theoretically possible to use an automatic car nobody does that because you then are not allowed to drive a manual one afterwards.

Same in the UK.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#282

Post by awad »

taeric wrote: post #175
gnicholas wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered how this is issue is addressed in EVs that offer one-pedal driving. Do they show the brake lights when deceleration exceeds a certain rate? Similarly, when I'm braking very lightly in my plugin-in hybrid in order to charge the battery all the way down a long hill, I wish there were a way to not have the brake lights activated the whole time. It's only barely slowing me down, and I've driven other cars t…

I'm curious why you care about the brake lights being on if you are actually braking. Even only slightly. Though, to directly answer your question, I don't know how cars that only have a single pedal work with this. Embarrassingly, I didn't realize those existed, so would be as interested as you in the answer.

It's not that the cars have one pedal, it's that you can get by with one pedal as lifting off the accelerator will induce the regenerative braking and slow the car down. On the Tesla at least this is an optional feature since it can be jarring to people who haven't used it.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#283

Post by NikolaNovak »

rootusrootus wrote: post #209
NikolaNovak wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but automatics with "paddle shifts" have very soft transition and very soft/delayed gas pedal reaction; whereas dual-clutch/sequential with "paddle shifts" have very fast transition and very straight gas pedal reaction. The true automatics, or CVT, there's limited need (or fun:) in paddle shifts outside of hills, poor traction, etc. For sequential/dual-clutch, paddle shift operation is direct... and fun :)

The only thing going away faster than the manual at this point are dual clutch transmissions. Never really perfected in most instances, and the latest slushboxes actually outperform them. Faster shifts, more reliable, cheaper. I prefer my manual very much, but I have to hand it to the engineers, they've turned what used to be a performance-killing design into the best you can buy.

Hmm Is there a car in price range of golf gti that has that level of gas pedal responsiveness? I would love to take it for a test drive and see if my skepticism is warranted :)

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#284

Post by OldHand2018 »

cuddlecake wrote: post #111
esaym wrote: post #96

Not sure what "audi" (a German company) has to do with America but what ever. For my own tastes, once my 2000 Ford mustang's automatic tranny started acting funny sometimes (after 15 years and 200k miles), I bought a used manual tranny, flywheel, and clutch pedal set from a wrecked mustang of the same year and did a swap. Much happier now. I also feel more "invincible". If my starter goes out, I won't be stranded, I…

> Not sure what "audi" (a German company) has to do with America but what ever Audi sells cars. Cars are sold in America. Audi sells cars in America. > Truly nothing can stop me! I hope stop signs can

> Audi sells cars. Cars are sold in America. Audi sells cars in America

When my first child was born, I went over to the local Audi dealership with plans to buy an A4 Avant Quattro with a manual transmission. No dice. Audi was only willing to sell Americans a manual transmission if it came in a sedan.

For a long time, there we so many artificial limitations, like you couldn't buy the upgraded radio or get leather seats if you wanted the manual transmission. A few years ago, BMW even limited the paint colors if you bought a 3-series with a manual. These days you can order any option you want on the 3-series with the manual - as long as you get the largest engine.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#285

Post by whyaduck »

anafh83 wrote: post #45
sebazzz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your country maybe. It is very much a cultural thing. In the Netherlands to get your driving license, you learn to stick shift by default. If you don't want or cannot learn to stick shift, you can get your license but you get a notice in your driving license that you are only allowed to drive automatic transmission. Learning to drive automatic is still very much an exception here. Most consumer cars in the Netherl…

I'm in Spain and I don't think I've seen an automatic in my entire life and it's also not possible to get a licence for an automatic car.

I rented a car in Bilbao recently - reserved a manual, got an automatic (presumably because I'm an American, and they assumed I'd ruin the clutch on a manual transmission). So, that's one way to see an automatic :).

When you say it's not possible to get a license for an automatic car, do you mean it's not possible to get tested for a driving license with an automatic?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#286

Post by NikolaNovak »

AshleyGrant wrote: post #43
NikolaNovak wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note, paddle shifts alone are not a good signifier, depending what's underneath them. There's a HUGE difference I find between: a) Automatic with paddle shifts: still has a torque converter between engine and wheels, soft response on pedal, and double-guesses everything you do b) Sequential and/or dual-clutch with paddle shifts: still has a clutch, direct connectivity from engine to wheels, same response to gas pedal…

Modern locking torque converters provide direct connectivity from engine to wheels just like a manual transmission. They just also provide the torque multiplication and buttery smooth starts that a torque converter allows for. I drove a BMW with the 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) for a few years. The programming is really good, but every once in a while it would get things wrong and I'd look like a kid just l…

I thought locking torque converters were designed for fuel efficiency and are engaged during cruising mode, not heavy acceleration. I have not personally driven an automatic where the rpm and speed (I. E. Wheel and engine) have direct relationship during acceleration. Per above, is there an automatic in gti'd price range that you feel trully has that level of responsiveness and fun (as opposed to twice the price)? If so... I'm very very interested (my wife doesn't drive stick so my WRX days are numbered)

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#287

Post by dkr88 »

pssflops wrote: post #169
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

My previous car, a 2008 Subaru WRX, in manual had cruise control; while it wasn't adaptive, it was the most important thing I will consider in any other manual transmission going forward. Stop-and-go traffic to my previous job made driving a chore and weekends weren't enough. I miss having that kind of control over the car, but the automatic Mazda3 I replaced it with has made that traffic an afterthought.

I test drove a 2008 WRX a while ago and the clutch was pretty heavy, IIRC. I remember thinking to myself "this would be a major pain in traffic".

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#288

Post by twblalock »

crazygringo wrote: post #99

Except the article doesn't answer it at all. Why did America lose its love... when other countries (e.g. rich European countries) continue to buy majority stick? All of the reasons given for the US presumably apply to e.g. Germany too, no? Except no transformation there...

It's happening in Europe. The popularity of SUVs and crossovers is also increasing there.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#289

Post by irq »

jedberg wrote: post #158
winter_blue wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, traffic sucks, and I think traffic is eventually going to push people to adopt cars with dynamic radar cruise control systems (that support stop-and-go traffic / low-speed follow). I have such a car (the Toyota Prius Prime), and driving any other regular car in heavy traffic has become insufferable.

I have one of those too but I find that it's only useful in light traffic. Anything more and it likes to slam on the brakes anytime someone merges into the lane. They still need to work on that software a bit.

BMW's latest rev of this tech (they call it 'active cruise control') has an adjustable sensitivity for brake response. Default setting is very good; it only slams on the brakes if it absolutely has to, otherwise it's a gradual response. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#290

Post by apple4ever »

emodendroket wrote: post #232
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

People always say this, but frankly I find stop-and-go traffic isn't that bad if you put the car into neutral instead of holding down the clutch the whole time. I haven't looked back since I bought my first manual car. I never use cruise control at all though, even when I had an automatic car.

Yep exactly. I rarely have issues in stop and go traffic. And if its just slow moving traffic, just keep it in first.

I love manuals, and everytime I drive an automatic I just hate it. It never does what I want.

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