Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#461

Post by Anderkent » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:12 PM UTC

394549 wrote: post #434

Anderkent wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course all companies use ads, including unscrupulous ones. But ads work better for companies with a real product, and therefore you expect the % of good products among advertised products to be higher than among non-advertised ones.

> But ads work better for companies with a real product, and therefore you expect the % of good products among advertised products to be higher than among non-advertised ones. [citation needed]

Are you contesting that ads work better for good products, or that such would imply more good products across advertised products?

The mechanism for the first is quite intuitive. An add can make someone buy something once. If that thing is good, there is a chance they will buy again, and so give you more money. If it is not good, they will at most buy it once.

So the EV of an add on a good product is by definition higher than one on a bad product; and so a company with a good product should be willing to spend more on an ad.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#462

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:16 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #457

dragonwriter wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fraud is not allowed in the 'free market.' Regulation need not apply, proper courts and remedy for fraud are required Courts apply laws. Laws defining and providing remedies for comemrcial frauds are regulations of the market.

> Courts apply laws. No, courts are arbiters, sometimes of the law, sometimes of civil disputes, such as contracts. > Laws defining and providing remedies for comemrcial frauds are regulations That is true, laws that apply to contracts are regulations, however, they are not necessary for remedy. If I have a contract to receive "A spoon product id xyz as created by Sir Porky Pig of 123. Main, CA USA" and anything othe…

> No, courts are arbiters, sometimes of the law, sometimes of civil disputes, such as contracts.

The things they define what is an enforceable contract and what remedies are available for violations are, again, laws. Civil law is as much law as criminal law.

> That is true, laws that apply to contracts are regulations, however, they are not necessary for remedy.

Yes, they are.

It is law which defines what is a contract, and law which defines what remedies exist for breach.

> If I have a contract to receive "A spoon product id xyz as created by Sir Porky Pig of 123. Main, CA USA" and anything other than that is delivered, it's a breach of contract at least and fraud at worst. I could sue for damages. What regulation is needed for this transaction?

(1) A law defining when an enforceable contract is formed and how the enforceable terms are determined.

(2) A law defining the parameters on which damages are legally compensable from breach, including setting standards for traceability of causation of the harm to the breach, degree to which the I hired party is or is not obligated to act reasonably to mitigate damages, etc.

> If someone were to deliberately intend to deceive me, that is fraud, and there are already laws for that.

And such laws are regulations of commerce.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#463

Post by austhrow743 » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:17 PM UTC

amazone2 wrote: post #397

arbuge wrote: post #19

Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases. A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Eb…

> the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 At least they're simply charging more. I found this battery charger [0] that costs more the more you buy! You can get 1 for ~$33.00, or you can get 3 for the price of 4 (~$133.00). I selected the single unit and set the amount to 3 and got them for ~100.00 r…

That reminded me of a purchase I made a couple weeks ago. Washing powder where the 2kg is cheaper than the 1kg. That was a headscratcher. As far as I can tell they're both sold by the manufacturer.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Cold-Power-Regular-Laundry-Brillia...

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#464

Post by trumped » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:21 PM UTC

arbuge wrote: post #19

Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases. A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Eb…

The shipping origin of the products also dictates the costs... were any of those cheaper items shipped from China?

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#465

Post by rperce » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:35 PM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #445

skellera wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my case. I ordered a couple shirts off the same listing I’ve bought from before. Turns out they used a 3rd party for this color who sent me the wrong shirt (different cotton poly blend). It took a week for them to “approve” the return which they were going to make me pay. Way to lose customer confidence over a $12 order. It was supposed to be a “Prime” order but it was a terrible experience. What is my Prime…

> What is my Prime membership paying for? a higher price https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/lawsuit-alleges-amazon-...

When is that article from? I can't find a date. Am interested to know if the suit has progressed.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#466

Post by taurath » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:36 PM UTC

> “At Amazon we work hard to continually invent new ways for customers to find the right products to meet their needs. We take the same approach with sponsored products and sponsored brands. We are focused on creating value for customers by helping them discover new brands and products.”

I hope everyone else see's whats happening with this statement - that famous "customer obsession" of Amazon's is now turned towards advertising buyers, who are now more the customer than you, the person purchasing the product. Now you are just a data point.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#467

Post by alyandon » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

SteveCoast wrote: post #137

Bartweiss wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this, but it's also true that until recently Amazon usually had all those advantages and lower prices. The change is meaningful both as a revealed strategy, and as a new datapoint about the fear of stores becoming "Amazon showrooms". For quite a while, it's been true that even after you're at Walmart or Target, comparing multiple items you couldn't evaluate well online, it was cheaper to drive home empty…

I agree if the prices are now really higher. They don't "feel" higher to me. Here's cat litter that's $17.49 (one of the root comments mentioned this but it might not be the identical product): https://camelcamelcamel.com/Dr-Elseys-Premium-Clumping-Litte... Looks like the price has been going sideways for 4 years with some noise up and down, and before that, come down a lot?

I buy that exact litter on a regular basis from Amazon. What happens is that Amazon periodically runs out of stock and the price jumps because all of the 3rd party sellers have much higher prices than Amazon.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#468

Post by ergothus » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

ashelmire wrote: post #210

Gustomaximus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it though? 1) The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. 2) Given purchasing power scale and people like fast delivery there will only be a handful of companies that can complete with Amazon ever, so it seems unlikely there will be a 'started in the garage' business compete with them now the market is maturing. 3) With the extra profit Amazon are making vs a competit…

>1) The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. Can they? They aren't the ones selling those products, individual companies set their own prices - and they have to pay a cut to Amazon. Even if that cut goes to 0 (making Amazon lose lots of money), that only puts them at barely better than the rest of the market. Walmart sets its own prices. >2) Given purchasing power scale…

> I think this has been proven wrong time and again. There's always a way into the market.

Has it? I have the impression that monopolies are often toppled only when the market CHANGES, and that's usually not the action of a competitor. Saying "wait long enough and you can compete on different turf" doesn't feel like competition, nor a win for consumers in the meantime.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#469

Post by paulie_a » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #205

Gustomaximus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it though? 1) The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. 2) Given purchasing power scale and people like fast delivery there will only be a handful of companies that can complete with Amazon ever, so it seems unlikely there will be a 'started in the garage' business compete with them now the market is maturing. 3) With the extra profit Amazon are making vs a competit…

> The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. > Given purchasing power scale and people like fast delivery there will only be a handful of companies that can complete with Amazon ever, so it seems unlikely there will be a 'started in the garage' business compete with them now the market is maturing. I'd rather just walk into Target (same day pickup), Walmart (same day pick…

Hell depending on your location instacart is an option and get it an hour later from Target. There are a ton of delivery apps though.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#470

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:51 PM UTC

dymk wrote: post #411

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't what the parent said: > Detect when the customer is tired or stressed and show higher prices. Detect price conscious customers and show them lower prices. Has nothing to do with supply and demand.

Behavioral economics would like to disagree. Supply and demand are a function of what buyers want; somebody wanting something _right now_ has been a force that markets cater to since markets have existed.

Behavioral economics isn't a law of physics, much of it is completely unproven, relying on psychology, which has a huge reproduce-ability problem.

Price gouging is raising prices to greater than what is fair for the value.

The amount of price raised is almost certainly to be greater than what is deemed fair in these cases from the law of supply and demand. Despite one person demanding it more, one person may be demanding it less, who is "more price conscious." Demand doesn't change in that scenario.'

It's one thing to cater to someone coming in, looking in a rush, verses spying on them in their own home and offering them products. If this is the world we're going to, I can only hope I'm not in it.