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How America lost its love for the stick shift

cnbc.com

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#141

Post by specialp »

joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

I have a manual transmission CTS-V and having a manual is a significant performance disadvantage these days. A 10 speed auto transmission will shift much faster than a 6sp manual driven by anyone even a professional, and it has more gears to sit in the sweet spot of motor torque/horsepower. If I buy another fast car it will 100% be an automatic. One thing I like about manual transmissions though is the reliability and maintainability. Problems with automatic transmissions can basically total a higher mileage car.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#142

Post by nimbius »

dan_quixote wrote: post #135
nimbius wrote: post #117

I've been an engine mechanic for 12 years now and the automatic transmission is a mainstay. Most parents and commuter drivers aren't exactly feathering the clutch like Rossi on the way to band practice in their Hyundai. They just want a cheap easy car that works without a lot of expense, and the automatic transmission takes less maintenance over the life of the vehicle than a manual.

I find the last statement surprising. Yes, manual transmissions do require the occasional clutch replacement but also have less moving parts. So I would have assumed less maintenance.

Ah, but you're forgetting clutch plates, rollback arrestors, springs, and seals. The longevity is as expected dependent on driver and style as well

Labor has overtaken parts in terms of expense for service like this as well. I can easily bill the cost of a compact car for work done on a high end manual car (Porsche and high end mustangs for example)

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#144

Post by DonHopkins »

RyJones wrote: post #52
sebazzz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your country maybe. It is very much a cultural thing. In the Netherlands to get your driving license, you learn to stick shift by default. If you don't want or cannot learn to stick shift, you can get your license but you get a notice in your driving license that you are only allowed to drive automatic transmission. Learning to drive automatic is still very much an exception here. Most consumer cars in the Netherl…

I've tried three times to rent a manual car at Schiphol, and ended up with an automatic each time. I also noticed that my Uber drivers almost always drive automatics in Amsterdam. I know, plural of anecdote is not data. Oh well. My 1998 Tacoma with a five speed will die soon enough, and I'll end up buying an automatic, probably. I will have :wq! on my headstone, though.

As an Emacs user, that's the only VI command I know!

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#146

Post by kenhwang »

crazygringo wrote: post #99

Except the article doesn't answer it at all. Why did America lose its love... when other countries (e.g. rich European countries) continue to buy majority stick? All of the reasons given for the US presumably apply to e.g. Germany too, no? Except no transformation there...

The biggest disadvantage autos still have versus manuals is their larger size and higher parasitic power loss. Americans tend to drive both larger and more powerful cars where the drawbacks of the auto over the manual are pretty much insignificant. Smaller European cars with lower power figures have more difficulty physically fitting the automatic transmission and the power loss from the torque converter is more noticeable.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#147

Post by jbn »

danans wrote: post #109
joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

Some years ago, Brammo developed, but never sold, a 6 speed electric motorcycle: https://www.wired.com/2011/05/brammo-six-speed-tranmission The idea was that you got the low speed torque of an electric motor and the high top speed of a ICE. It was probably a marginal improvement though, and really more of a manual transmission nostalgia play.

Mission Motors did one too. See https://www.fastcompany.com/1578451/object-desire-yves-behar...

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#148

Post by scrumper »

Cities and freeways are one thing, but I think it's more about suburbia. Stop signs over yields by default, four way stop signs, and roundabouts (circles) being a completely alien concept. These things are kinda fine in an automatic but vastly less comfortable in a manual.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#149

Post by setr »

dionidium wrote: post #133
zanny wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy to say from the position of thinking you can't lose your license or have the financial means to deal with such a loss. For a majority of those living in the US the places they live and work have been so fundamentally designed around cars that no alternative form of transit is usable. Busses might run once a day, no sidewalks, no bike lanes amidst 5 layer highways. Even getting out of ones housing development via…

> Easy to say from the position of thinking you can't lose your license or have the financial means to deal with such a loss. There's a villainous cycle at work here. Car supremacy produces cities in which you need a car, so that attempts to push back on car supremacy can be credibly opposed on the grounds that they hurt the poor and less advantaged, when of course the very opposite thing is true.

the opposite is true in the long run. In the finalized scenario, where public transport is cheap, functional, useful and maintainable, or modern cities have been totally rewritten to support pedestrian first, it makes more sense than cars. But between removing cars today, and the day public transport actually reaches such a state, is long and far, and you fuck the car-less over for the entire duration.

You can't suddenly make getting a license harder without also changing a hundred other things too, if you have any intent to preserve any other lifestyle than one that does not require a car, or is not at risk of losing their license. Such a claim is indeed a self-centered one, if you aren't also arguing for the other things as well, simultaneously.

To suggest it without the even referring to the rest alongside it is to create the image of horror, to anyone who isn't already aligned with your premise. And if you weren't intending that statement for people who didn't already agree with you, then the most you could have accomplished was virtue signaling, and I don't know why you would want to do such a horrible thing

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#150

Post by jedberg »

Fezzik wrote: post #116

That bums me out, but I get it. My first non hand-me-down car was a beat-up Audi A4 (manual) off craigslist that I loved for years and years as a ski bum. I am definitely one of the many "manual transmissions are more fun" people. But once I got that office job, even 15 minutes a day in city traffic with a manual angered me, so I transitioned to an automatic. Now that I am out of the city I would love a manual again,…

I found that having a stick in traffic was actually easier for me. I could keep it in one gear which meant not moving my foot from brake to gas (I could just use engine breaking and use just the gas).
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