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Why Is College in America So Expensive?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#121

Post by leekyle333 »

fzeroracer wrote: post #102
frebord wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ultimately, college is expensive in the U.S. for the same reason MRIs are expensive: There is no central mechanism to control price increases. “Universities extract money from students because they can,” says Schleicher at the OECD. “It’s the inevitable outcome of an unregulated fee structure.” Why do people always reach for central control, when we have the ultimate mechanism of price control as a core part of our…

The free market does not work in all situations. There's a reason why our healthcare is an absolute disaster compared to any other first world country, why our college is far more expensive, why our drugs cost more etc And it ain't because of cost control. Every time we loosen the reins a bit and let the 'free market' take the wheels, we see things get a lot worse for Americans as a whole. Especially when you have gi…

It is interesting to me that the three areas main areas in America that have become exponentially more expensive are healthcare, construction, and education. It's curious that they have the most government control.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#122

Post by rustybelt »

dragonwriter wrote: post #118
rossjudson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you can. Limit the federal education loan guarantee to 15k per year. Presto. Watch education prices drop like a rock, when lenders raise rates to accommodate future earnings potential, instead of counting on federal guarantees.

> Limit the federal education loan guarantee to 15k per year. > Presto. Watch education prices drop like a rock Why would raising the limit have that effect? The limit for federally guaranteed loans (which are also, for nearly a decade, exclusively federal direct loans) is already $57,500 total for undergraduate education, and the maximim per year limit (it is lower for dependent students) is $9,500 for first-year st…

I'm guessing the poster is actually proposing changes that would allow the portion of student loan debt above 15k per year to be dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#123

Post by StreamBright »

bhupy wrote: post #119
fzeroracer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a statistic or actual citation there other than an issue with potentially out of date laws. How are you quantifying American Healthcare as being one of the least free markets? And how does it compare to other countries? I don't see anyone ever actually quantify how 'free' a market is; people only ever argue that if a market is not working therefore it's not free enough, which means we must make it free. A…

Sure - in America, healthcare is far from a free market because: 1) We don’t pay our own healthcare bills, we pay for our healthcare through insurance. As a result, there isn’t a pricing system in place, much like there is for other critical goods and services with price-inelastic demand like food and housing. This is caused by regulations that require employers to provide health insurance for their employees, and mo…

Exactly this. In Germany the private insurance is actually cheaper than the public one, you can purchase private on the top of public and so on. As a result of a much freer market the prices are much lower.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#124

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dragonwriter wrote: post #113
jonknee wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a triple occupancy dorm. You could definitely do that in Seattle/SF/NYC considering it's a single room with no kitchen or bathroom shared by 3 people (other than the fact that I think it would be illegal to rent out).

It's about what you'd pay for a studio in SF of similar size with the kitchen and bathroom taking up some of that space. Of course, the commute to UC Davis campus would be longer from SF.

>Of course, the commute to UC Davis campus would be longer from SF.

Considering UC Davis is bear Sacramento, that’s an understatement.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#125

Post by clay_the_ripper »

leekyle333 wrote: post #121
fzeroracer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market does not work in all situations. There's a reason why our healthcare is an absolute disaster compared to any other first world country, why our college is far more expensive, why our drugs cost more etc And it ain't because of cost control. Every time we loosen the reins a bit and let the 'free market' take the wheels, we see things get a lot worse for Americans as a whole. Especially when you have gi…

It is interesting to me that the three areas main areas in America that have become exponentially more expensive are healthcare, construction, and education. It's curious that they have the most government control.

Could you explain to me how the government control of those things had lead to price increases? Specifically? I hear this a lot but have never heard an explaination and I am genuinely curious of the reasoning

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#126

Post by secabeen »

This is such a weird article. It promotes this vision of college being expensive, then undercuts its main argument:

> “The public system in the U.S. is working as well as most systems,” he says. “Parts of the U.S. look like France.”

> Three out of every four American college students attend a school in this public system, which is funded through state and local subsidies, along with students’ tuition dollars and some federal aid.

If 75% of students attend a school in the public system, and the public system is working as well as most systems, aren't we in pretty good shape? Why are we letting the experience of a minority of students drive the conversation here?

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#127

Post by wonnage »

frebord wrote: post #91
Domenic_S wrote: post #3

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

> Ultimately, college is expensive in the U.S. for the same reason MRIs are expensive: There is no central mechanism to control price increases. “Universities extract money from students because they can,” says Schleicher at the OECD. “It’s the inevitable outcome of an unregulated fee structure.” Why do people always reach for central control, when we have the ultimate mechanism of price control as a core part of our…

[flagged]

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#128

Post by secabeen »

xienze wrote: post #15
Domenic_S wrote: post #3

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

> I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The other kicker is that they bake BIG subsidies for low-income students into tuition, which I found rather counter-intuitive. We're gonna raise tuition... to help students who can't afford tuition... pay for tuition that they can't afford...…

It's because while few students pay the nameplate tuition, for the few that do (high-income and out-of-state students), it brings in a lot of revenue. Thus, there's little incentive to control it, if you can make the net-cost to each student controlled behind the scenes.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#129

Post by floren »

dragonwriter wrote: post #112
phil248 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you apply 50% of that cost towards food, that's still around $830/mo rent for a shared room in Davis, California. You could find better deals in nice parts of San Francisco or Manhattan.

> You could find better deals in nice parts of San Francisco or Manhattan. It's about the same price as a median studio in SF,($2490 vs. $2461), but the SF studio is about the same size without the kind of shared kitchen, restroom, and living spaces outside the unit that are included, and without the convenience to the core campus. You can save rent by living off campis instead of on campus—in fact, you'll be forced…

On-campus housing is also a known quantity with an expected 9-month "lease" cycle. You can save money off-campus, but you have to deal with apartments of uncertain quality and landlords who REALLY want a 1-year lease.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#130

Post by fzeroracer »

bhupy wrote: post #119
fzeroracer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a statistic or actual citation there other than an issue with potentially out of date laws. How are you quantifying American Healthcare as being one of the least free markets? And how does it compare to other countries? I don't see anyone ever actually quantify how 'free' a market is; people only ever argue that if a market is not working therefore it's not free enough, which means we must make it free. A…

Sure - in America, healthcare is far from a free market because: 1) We don’t pay our own healthcare bills, we pay for our healthcare through insurance. As a result, there isn’t a pricing system in place, much like there is for other critical goods and services with price-inelastic demand like food and housing. This is caused by regulations that require employers to provide health insurance for their employees, and mo…

I asked for an actual quantifier of how much of a 'free market' something is. That's the whole crux of my debate: In attempt to make something more of a 'free market' we cut regulations, which ends up hurting people and which companies take advantage of. Then prices go up, we assume the free market is not free enough, so we cut more regulations. Repeat until people are dying.

A great example of such an issue is one where it was literally impossible for my parents to get any sort of healthcare because it was deemed that they had a pre-existing condition. No insurance provider would bother with them.

And for a lot of Americans paying anything for out of pocket care is impossible. My parents couldn't afford a movie ticket due to the poverty they're in, let alone the price of generic drugs for the myriad of medical issues they're going through. You keep bringing up the example of Singapore which works...but they also have a public option. We're not even to that point yet and making some of these radical changes without care to the poorest of Americans will lead to disaster.

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