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How America lost its love for the stick shift

cnbc.com

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#131

Post by vvanders »

aphextron wrote: post #119
joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

> EV > Manual > Automatic Same here. I drive an EV every day but have a 6 speed Miata for fun.

Yeah, my inner gearhead was a bit sad when I sold the manual car and we picked up a Tesla. That said 1-pedal driving is pretty great for curvy roads.

However we acquired an old '81 ford tractor a few years ago so I can wrench on that all I want while still enjoying the EV for daily driving.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#132

Post by kenhwang »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #118
joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

Get a sports car, put it in manual mode, and you get the perks of choosing gears during the drive without stalling your engine.

But you can't skip gears like you can in a manual, which matters more when you have 10 speeds reaching mass market.

I hate using manual mode in an automatic. I love driving stick. The fun in driving stick isn't from being able to pick gears.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#133

Post by dionidium »

zanny wrote: post #102
mulmen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today. We don't even re-test.

Easy to say from the position of thinking you can't lose your license or have the financial means to deal with such a loss. For a majority of those living in the US the places they live and work have been so fundamentally designed around cars that no alternative form of transit is usable. Busses might run once a day, no sidewalks, no bike lanes amidst 5 layer highways. Even getting out of ones housing development via…

> Easy to say from the position of thinking you can't lose your license or have the financial means to deal with such a loss.

There's a villainous cycle at work here. Car supremacy produces cities in which you need a car, so that attempts to push back on car supremacy can be credibly opposed on the grounds that they hurt the poor and less advantaged, when of course the very opposite thing is true.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#134

Post by joeblau »

aphextron wrote: post #119
joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

> EV > Manual > Automatic Same here. I drive an EV every day but have a 6 speed Miata for fun.

I'm with you on the Miata being a super fun car. That's a great car for a track day.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#135

Post by dan_quixote »

nimbius wrote: post #117

I've been an engine mechanic for 12 years now and the automatic transmission is a mainstay. Most parents and commuter drivers aren't exactly feathering the clutch like Rossi on the way to band practice in their Hyundai. They just want a cheap easy car that works without a lot of expense, and the automatic transmission takes less maintenance over the life of the vehicle than a manual.

I find the last statement surprising. Yes, manual transmissions do require the occasional clutch replacement but also have less moving parts. So I would have assumed less maintenance.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#136

Post by slavapestov »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #118
joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

Get a sports car, put it in manual mode, and you get the perks of choosing gears during the drive without stalling your engine.

After a week of driving manual you will never stall the engine.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#137

Post by nimbius »

csours wrote: post #127
nimbius wrote: post #117

I've been an engine mechanic for 12 years now and the automatic transmission is a mainstay. Most parents and commuter drivers aren't exactly feathering the clutch like Rossi on the way to band practice in their Hyundai. They just want a cheap easy car that works without a lot of expense, and the automatic transmission takes less maintenance over the life of the vehicle than a manual.

How long did it take to get that way? Automatics used to be more trouble prone for a long time.

Toyota has made a reliable 100k mission for nearly 20 years, but only because they had to build one from scratch. Prior to this American style Chrysler and Borg warner missions were prone to a lot of manufacturing fault related breakdowns. Honda also pioneered the use of metallurgical variances in gears to ensure longevity. Example: high nickel gears in their turbo transmissions.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#138

Post by cuddlecake »

newnewpdro wrote: post #80
peeters wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the Yoga Bera quote, (paraphrasing) "that place is so busy, nobody goes there any more." If manual was universal, then everybody used to know how to drive it. The situation you describe wouldn't have made sense 50 years ago. The only reason a generation of wives would know how to drive automatic but not manual is if automatic was already the mainstream choice. So what you're saying might strengthen…

I'm only speaking to why it's vanishing , how even the last vestiges of the gearheads have arrived at automatics.

Footnote: Anectodal Evidence

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#139

Post by FLUX-YOU »

kenhwang wrote: post #132
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a sports car, put it in manual mode, and you get the perks of choosing gears during the drive without stalling your engine.

But you can't skip gears like you can in a manual, which matters more when you have 10 speeds reaching mass market. I hate using manual mode in an automatic. I love driving stick. The fun in driving stick isn't from being able to pick gears.

What does skipping gears get you that quick sequential shifts don't?

My feeling is the opposite. Paddle shifters are the closest I'll get to driving an F1 car, and I've put a decent amount of time in with a racing wheel and pedals and racing sims and that's where I get all of my muscle memory for my Golf GTI.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#140

Post by slavapestov »

newnewpdro wrote: post #67

This article completely misses what I have observed as a major factor in nearly everyone switching to automatics: Drunk driving became illegal, then agressively enforced. This created a powerful incentive for having a vehicle anyone can drive. All my friends growing up were gearheads of some kind, and drove manual cars. Now they have automatics, so they can continue to get drunk when out and have someone sober (their…

> Don't forget letting the female half of the population drive in the US is a relatively new development as well...

This is completely false, my understanding is there was never a prohibition against women driving in the USA, although maybe at one point in the past it was less common. Also I don't see what this has to do with your earlier point about drunk driving.

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