How America lost its love for the stick shift • Hacker News Board

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#101

Post by crunchlibrarian » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

I've tried lots of autos and CVTs and still haven't found one that isn't terribly confused about what gearing I want. The worst is when you floor it and it thinks for two seconds before actually downshifting, it can be outright dangerous. And if you're in a powerful car an unexpected upshift that shifts the weight around in bizarre ways, cuts power, and kicks the traction control into overdrive while cornering is a pretty terrifying experience as well.

Some of the paddle shifters seem decent but I often like to change up where I grip the wheel on track days and on sharp turns in mountain driving, so I often can't choose my gearing at all with them.

I can see the appeal of the autos in high traffic tedious commuting situations where you're in some underpowered econobox, which is zero percent of my driving, so I'm sticking with a manual as long as I can keep finding them.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#102

Post by zanny » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:32 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #50

AWildC182 wrote: post #29

I like manuals because they feel better to me. This is totally anecdotal but to me it seems like the stick keeps me more engaged with what's happening with the car so I find I tend to be less distracted. It also occupies a hand so it definitely prevents a lot of phone usage. If this could actually be proved I'd definitely welcome a return to manual transmissions as sometimes I feel like the only person not on their p…

We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today. We don't even re-test.

Easy to say from the position of thinking you can't lose your license or have the financial means to deal with such a loss.

For a majority of those living in the US the places they live and work have been so fundamentally designed around cars that no alternative form of transit is usable. Busses might run once a day, no sidewalks, no bike lanes amidst 5 layer highways. Even getting out of ones housing development via anything but a car can be challenging if its a fenced in community with winding lane and a half roads parked full of cars.

I'd naturally much prefer more strict licensing and more frequent license revocation - if for no other reason than it would demonstrably save many lives - but only after we solve the car sprawl hellscape that is a majority of settled US territory.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#103

Post by draw_down » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:32 PM UTC

I just want it to go faster when I press the gas. I'm not interested in shifting gears necessarily, just like I'm not interested in instructing the computer how much power to draw from the battery at any given moment. Just let me use the thing

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#104

Post by kenhwang » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:33 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #89

IshKebab wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are manuals not cheaper to manufacture and repair? Definitely in the UK since 90% of cars are still manual.

You know why automatics are sealed these days? They don't expect them to need service. Here in the U. S., I actually had to call around to find someone that would do a clutch. When I was a Firestone mechanic lo those twenty some years ago, we'd drop a tranny and throw clutch plates in all the time (book time paid more time than it took me to do it). Neither of the local Firestones would touch it when I called. Point…

Most modern DCTs are wet clutch which should last more or less forever. Ford/Volvo's dry clutch DCTs probably still require regular clutch plate replacements. Torque converters pretty much last forever on infrequent fluid changes or the whole unit fails.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#105

Post by stochastic_monk » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

My automatic is terrible and has had several software recalls. I wish I’d chosen manual.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#106

Post by kps » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #65

Ctrl-F "traffic" shows up nothing in the article - there's not much discussion of "why" other than the technology is better. Truth is that when you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, stopping and starting, manuals are tedious and not a good experience.

Stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, stopping and starting, is tedious and not a good experience. In my experience, transmission makes no difference.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#107

Post by kenhwang » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

esaym wrote: post #96

Not sure what "audi" (a German company) has to do with America but what ever. For my own tastes, once my 2000 Ford mustang's automatic tranny started acting funny sometimes (after 15 years and 200k miles), I bought a used manual tranny, flywheel, and clutch pedal set from a wrecked mustang of the same year and did a swap. Much happier now. I also feel more "invincible". If my starter goes out, I won't be stranded, I…

Supposedly, it's newsworthy because Audi was going to discontinue manuals much sooner, but one of their execs pushed for continued offering because of "demand in the US".

Porsche got a lot of backlash in the US when they discontinued manuals, to the point where they engineered a brand new manual gearbox with parts sharing with their PDK just because of US demand for the latest generation.

Audi thought there was also demand for Audis with manuals, apparently there wasn't.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#108

Post by pmontra » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #65

Ctrl-F "traffic" shows up nothing in the article - there's not much discussion of "why" other than the technology is better. Truth is that when you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, stopping and starting, manuals are tedious and not a good experience.

I'd like an automatic transmission in cities and on highways and a manual one up and down hills and off-road, when I want to be sure about what the car will do. So what about a sequential transmission? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_manual_transmission It's the one we use in videogames when we select "manual". In real cars they usually have an automatic mode. Car2Go Smarts used to have that transmission, activated by a stick.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#109

Post by danans » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

Some years ago, Brammo developed, but never sold, a 6 speed electric motorcycle:

https://www.wired.com/2011/05/brammo-six-speed-tranmission

The idea was that you got the low speed torque of an electric motor and the high top speed of a ICE.

It was probably a marginal improvement though, and really more of a manual transmission nostalgia play.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#110

Post by imglorp » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

headcanon wrote: post #53

My father bought me my first car, under the conditions that it had to be a stick, since he wanted me to learn in general, and since you have to pay attention more to the road, your likelihood of getting into an accident decreases significantly. Now I drive a manual Golf GTI and I'm firmly of the "cold dead hands" camp with having it. I always wonder why other people don't like driving, and then I drive their cars. Ha…

> since you have to pay attention more to the road

I'm teaching an attention-impaired teenager to drive, and we're doing stick for exactly this reason: extra cog load reduces daydreaming? Perhaps that's a controversial idea. But for him, so far so good.