I think that it is not useful to build on Ousterhout's definition as his definition of systems programming language is mostly meant as contrast to Tcl with it's everything is a string memory model (in that view one could very well conclude that Python is a systems programming language).
What Is Systems Programming, Really?
81–90 of 93 posts
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#82If you are making system calls–without too much abstraction–you are doing systems programming.
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#83> Andrei Alexandrescu (creator of D) Andrei didn't create D; he's been influential in it, especially w.r.t. D's metaprogramming story, but the language was created and is primarily maintained by Walter Bright.
D1 was created by Walter Bright, but D2 was primarily created by both Walter Bright and Andrei Alexandrescu.
Why am I getting downvoted for this? Lmao
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
D1 was created by Walter Bright, but D2 was primarily created by both Walter Bright and Andrei Alexandrescu.
Is D2 so different as to be considered a separate language? (I haven't really followed it for years now.)
Yes it's very different.
D2 introduced a lot of new keywords, new semantics, not two "standard" libraries like with D1 where there were Tango. Tango is pretty much completely obsolete in D2. Most D1 code might work to an extend with the D2 compiler, BUT almost no D2 code will be able to run using a D1 compiler and it'll even be difficult to translate it directly.
D2 is basically when Andrei joined the development of D back in 2007.
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#85Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#86In one word - syscalls. What do I win?
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#87Great article. This is an important distinction to make. I've noticed that the more experienced I got, I felt less and less need to micro-optimize every aspect of a program at the expense of code readability. That's where I think the design and implementation of a system intersect; making it easy to understand how it works and giving future maintainers the confidence to make changes is best accomplished with clear an…
Depends on the kind of software, though. If you're writing an interpreter/compiler, web server, database or operating system you don't have much choice.
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#88System programming is definitely a bit overloaded these days though I believe it is now widely understood to be languages like C/C++ that can be used for OS, kernel, and embedded development. I would agree though that the language ecosystem is shifting a lot in the last few years. IMHO there are now a few languages that are becoming proper full stack languages in the sense that they scale from embedded all the way to…
Rust is nice but I wouldn't call it full stack because I don't think you should choose it in situations where you can afford a garbage collector. In those cases there are much more ergonomic options available.
Well, I'm seeing people doing web apps in Rust and doing operating systems as well. Certainly the Rust community has been all over wasm and rust tooling for that is relatively mature compared to other languages. Precisely because it doesn't need a garbage collector and they don't have to wait for standard solutions for that to ship in the next year or so.
But I agree, languages like Swift and Kotlin are a bit more logical choice as fullstack languages. Both of those are also extending their reach. Particulary, Kotlin code is a very nice upgrade from javascript in terms of expressiveness, tooling, and safety. I'm using it on top of the JVM currently. People are doing Android with it and the native compiler currently under development is explicitly targeted at doing native IOS and Android apps (i.e. not the current java based DEX vm common on Android).
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#89Nice article. My view of Systems Programming will forever be colored by my start with IBM mainframes. The Systems Programmer maintained all the utilities that the mainframe provided, and also the frameworks that supported online programming. I suppose today's equivalent is a combination of a sysadmin and an applications developer, providing the applications are things like container components, build pipelines, etc.
They call them devops these days.
Re: What Is Systems Programming, Really?
#90when I was programming in the 70s and 80s (in the UK), the term systems programmer applied to those people involved in the configuration, tuning, management of software such as CICS, MVS, and their equivalents on other hardware bases. I worked at Sperry Univac for several years and the "systems programmers" were the engineers who tweaked the OS, the TP schedulers, built the product installation scripts, designed the configs that controlled the software. It was a specific tradecraft suited to those who were more technically focused, remember that COBOL was the prevalent language for nearly all programming roles in the 70s and that there was no "web" per se. The term started to fade away roughly when PCs started entering into mainstream computing