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Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

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Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#141
post #64
post #6

It's not hard to imagine that Amazon has created a situation where groups within the company are incented to drive up this high-margin ad income (no annoying logistics! no inventory!), divorced from the "external" fallout of ever-so-slowly turning the site into garbage. eBay, have you anything to say about this? Or how about you, Hewlett Packard?

Ad revenue is easy to measure. Long term erosion of the trust of your users isn’t. Metric-driven decision making is not a silver bullet.

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." —Goodhart's law

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#142
post #19

Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases. A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Eb…

> Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly.

Speaking as a longtime customer, I agree: this is what Amazon's behavior feels like to me nowadays. Search no longer works well for me. Reviews and product ratings are no longer trustworthy. The authenticity of products in key categories (e.g., electronics) can no longer be taken for granted. Yet Amazon seems to be... largely unaware of these issues. They seem to be prioritizing a wide range of important strategic imperatives over... customer happiness.

I can't help but think of the famous quote from the Book of Proverbs, 16:18:

"Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#143
The ads have been there for a long time (I know because I've either spent or managed spending on millions of dollars in clicks). It's not even the first time that it's been written about in the tech press. The share of voice provided to ads on Amazon's search results is not particularly greater than what you see on Google or FB.

The headline ads are a little newer, but they're still more than a couple years old. On many Google searches you have to scroll past the fold to get past the sponsored results.

With search, unless you provide some avenue for sponsored results, you will get a winners-win-more effect in which the top 3 results for any given search will capture the entire market. You will get people complaining about 'discoverability' when they are not complaining about advertising. You can't stop people complaining about stuff: you can only trade around what people are complaining about today.

I will say that as Google has generally subtracted or crippled features that are useful to advertisers over the last several years, Amazon has generally kept things simple and effective. Also, virtually no customer information is exposed to advertisers through use of the platform. Everything about a customer is essentially exposed if you are the seller, however, but that isn't different from running a print catalog.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#144
post #19

Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases. A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Eb…

Trying to find real data that amazon prices are going up:

Is it this product?

https://camelcamelcamel.com/Dr-Elseys-Premium-Clumping-Litte...

It looks like the price has been roughly the same for 4 years with jumps up and down. And before that, declined a lot.

If we include inflation the price seems to be declining.

Here's a graph for a chair mat:

https://camelcamelcamel.com/AmazonBasics-Carpet-Chair-Mat-47...

If anything, the graphs seem to show a lack of price discovery as it's not jumping around enough. Maybe camelcamelcamel doesn't sample at a high enough frequency.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any time where they are trying to make a profit by selling you something you want?

Bingo. Why are so many people willing to throw away the baby (capitalism) with the dirty bathwater (monopolies and others crony deviations.)

One answer would be that with improved communication and improved transportation the relative advantage of monopolies has become intolerably large.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#146
post #19

Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases. A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Eb…

I almost ordered two pvc plumbing fittings from Amazon last week for $13.99. Thanks to some Hackernews skepticism I cancelled my shopping cart. I found the same fittings at my local hardware store for $8.99. My question is, how dynamic are Amazon’s prices? Do all users see the same prices or is it more like google search where results are “personalized”? It seems like they could dynamically change prices based on use…

No, prices (aside from "Amazon Business" pricing which was a large internal project to achieve what you're describing but only for differentiation between business and personal purchases) are all the same for every user.

I believe most of the rationale was not wanting upset customers annoyed with getting different prices than others first and foremost, but also technically pricing system is already extremely complex and dynamic per user would add an order of magnitude to scaling challenges and viewed as not worth it.. Business pricing itself required many changes to internal system.

Source: worked in Amazon Business / B2B

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#147
That's very interesting, it looks like there is a natural tendency in private market to go to corruption. We see it where retailers ask money from the factories to put the product in some height on the shelf. Online we see it with "search result" placement. We see it in facebook where if you don't pay, they reduce the number of people who will see your post.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#148
Destroy them - all of them, by whatever means necessary. Get arrested, go to prison. Get threatened, beaten up, publicly shamed, financially ruined, digitally mauled. Become an online and offline pariah - whatever, it doesn't matter at this point what happens to your precious self. Destroy Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. They will be the downfall of us all, if they haven't already succeeded in accomplishing this work already. Actively fight back against these new governments

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bezos is out to make an empire, everything else comes second. I share this sentiment. For comparison, I believe the amount of and methods with which Google collects data to be wrong, but I also believe that they don't believe they are doing something (outright) wrong. Amazon, however, must know that they have a counterfeit goods problem, but it seems that they couldn't care less about it. Same applies to gaming the…

How would you solve the counterfeit goods and preventing people from gaming the review system problems? It seems like a hard problem - eBay suffered from this too for their goods,Yelp with reviews. I doubt it's just a "I don't care" kind of thing.

It's a solved problem and not hard.

Most brick and mortar chains in the UK have a buying policy that requires you to prove your goods are fit for purpose before they'll put it on the shelves and risk hurting their brand. I imagine most of Europe operates similarly.

They will generally require suppliers to send examples of the range before being allowed in store, and they will test or examine a representative selection first. They'll probably do basic safety and legality tests too. As a new supplier you can expect your products to be subject to random checks over the coming months. After a period of good track record you will become a trusted supplier and subject to fewer, or perhaps no, checks.

Amazon should do the same. That they are big or that they are online is no excuse not to.

Re: Amazon is stuffing its search results pages with ads

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you solve the counterfeit goods and preventing people from gaming the review system problems? It seems like a hard problem - eBay suffered from this too for their goods,Yelp with reviews. I doubt it's just a "I don't care" kind of thing.

> How would you solve the counterfeit goods and preventing people from gaming the review system problems? No idea what do to about the reviews, but the first step to the counterfeit goods problem is simple: once you've received X complaints about a counterfeit product, stop selling the product . Continuing to sell a product for which there are numerous and credible indications that they are counterfeit is borderline…

> No idea what do to about the reviews,

They need to patrol the sources for fake reviews (facebook groups, etc) and perform sting operations to catch the sellers who solicit them. It shouldn't be too hard, a simple Facebook search finds hundreds of groups and thousands of solicitations. Once you identify a seller that does this, you ban them from Amazon, as well as everyone who's given their products a fake review (for the reviewers, it should probably be a three strikes thing before they're banned, since a lot of them seem to just like free stuff).

> but the first step to the counterfeit goods problem is simple: once you've received X complaints about a counterfeit product, stop selling the product.

> Continuing to sell a product for which there are numerous and credible indications that they are counterfeit is borderline fraud.

I'd say the second step is to roll back many of Amazon's practices that make counterfeiting harder to detect, for instance how they can commingle inventory between sellers (if those sellers weren't careful when they made their listing). That makes it impossible for the sellers to have meaningful reputation scores, since bad-actors can sell their counterfeits through honest-actor storefronts (and vice versa).

The third step is to implement better supply chain management and vetting of suppliers. Not everyone should be able to set up a marketplace store and sell any product. There needs to be effective vetting of sellers and it should be hard enough to setup a marketplace account they can't just create a new one when their last one is banned. There should also be especially stringent vetting around listings for frequently fake and counterfeit products, like SD cards.

The fourth step is to implement active counterfeit and fake product detection (through test purchases). If a particular item is too often fake or counterfeited, Amazon should ban it from the marketplace and only sell inventory directly sourced from the original manufacturer.

None of these things should be too hard for a company with Amazon's resources to effectively implement. The fact that it hasn't says that these problems aren't a priority for it.

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