A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes • Hacker News Board

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#231

Post by foldr » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:03 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #230

megaremote wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can't. You actually use public transport. This is a common complaint from a car driver unwilling to change their way, and scraping or excuses, when they are just being selfish and lazy.

Everyone has a different risk tolerance level (and what they can afford). But I've experienced far too many train cars smelling like urine and experienced a homeless person with extreme odors come into a car basically necessitating it being vacated. Even a 1 in 100 chance is enough for me to opt for another mode of transport, if available.

People with low risk tolerance should choose the subway, because it's much safer than driving.

>But I've experienced far too many train cars smelling like urine and experienced a homeless person with extreme odors come into a car basically necessitating it being vacated. Even a 1 in 100 chance is enough for me to opt for another mode of transport, if available.

All you have to do is get out of one subway car and move to the next one at the next station. Avoiding public transport because you (allegedly) have to do this 1 time in 100 makes no sense.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#232

Post by astura » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 11:50 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #230

megaremote wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can't. You actually use public transport. This is a common complaint from a car driver unwilling to change their way, and scraping or excuses, when they are just being selfish and lazy.

Everyone has a different risk tolerance level (and what they can afford). But I've experienced far too many train cars smelling like urine and experienced a homeless person with extreme odors come into a car basically necessitating it being vacated. Even a 1 in 100 chance is enough for me to opt for another mode of transport, if available.

1) this isn't risky or dangerous

2) do you also avoid leaving your house entirely?? because you are likely to run across homeless people in other public places than the subway. The worst smelling homeless person I've ever encountered was at a grocery store.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#233

Post by Const-me » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 12:14 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #228

macspoofing wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New York implemented a medallion system because Manhattan is a long, narrow island with high travel demand. I'm sure it was well intentioned ... initially. And then it became a boondoggle that protected the invested capital of medallion owners. >Commuters, shoppers etc. do own cars and clog streets during the peak hours, but commuters and shoppers also park their cars while they're off doing their jobs and errands;…

> An equilibrium which balances price, convenience, time, etc. will be established - so don't fight it, let it establish itself. An equilibrium for local passenger travel might be established. Which does a whole lotta nothing for the emergency vehicles, the delivery vehicles, the commuter and local and intercity buses, etc., all of which have to share the same roads. In fact, average bus speeds citywide in New York h…

> Unpriced traffic

https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/gas/gasidx.htm

https://dmv.ny.gov/motor-carriers/new-york-state-highway-use...

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/taxes/business-commercial-...

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#234

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 12:21 PM UTC

gammateam wrote: post #88

nine_k wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some people, especially urban-based, just like the anti-car narrative, so they link to it as to something that confirms their favorite POV. I bet city officials in most places don't like ride-hailing companies, too, so they would gladly link to something like this, for the same reason. Maybe every other reader would look at it and say: "Hey, this has no data, and the author's position produces an obvious confli…

Why does it have to be an anti-car narrative, or something insidious Why do you think limited-supply medallion systems existed in the first place? Come on this is just classic "I forgot why these regulations existed and now a 100 year old problem is being recreated" A form of limited licensing for ride-hailing companies can exist without any of the inputs from the taxicab lobby and work out really well.

[deleted]

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#235

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 1:07 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #231

lotsofpulp wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a different risk tolerance level (and what they can afford). But I've experienced far too many train cars smelling like urine and experienced a homeless person with extreme odors come into a car basically necessitating it being vacated. Even a 1 in 100 chance is enough for me to opt for another mode of transport, if available.

People with low risk tolerance should choose the subway, because it's much safer than driving. >But I've experienced far too many train cars smelling like urine and experienced a homeless person with extreme odors come into a car basically necessitating it being vacated. Even a 1 in 100 chance is enough for me to opt for another mode of transport, if available. All you have to do is get out of one subway car and move…

Risks from vehicles is dependent on speed your traveling (which is not fast in NYC or SF), the driver, the size of the vehicle you're in, and the backseat. All I know is if there is no traffic according to google maps, and it's at least 2 people, then it only ends up costing a few dollars more to take Uber/Lyft to get to where I'm going, and it's more consistent (time wise) and clean than public transit.

If public transit didn't result in worse experiences, then I wouldn't opt to use Uber/Lyft.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#236

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #232

lotsofpulp wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a different risk tolerance level (and what they can afford). But I've experienced far too many train cars smelling like urine and experienced a homeless person with extreme odors come into a car basically necessitating it being vacated. Even a 1 in 100 chance is enough for me to opt for another mode of transport, if available.

1) this isn't risky or dangerous 2) do you also avoid leaving your house entirely?? because you are likely to run across homeless people in other public places than the subway. The worst smelling homeless person I've ever encountered was at a grocery store.

It's just one of many factors, but at the current price points, if there are 2 or more people going somewhere in SF/NYC, then Uber/Lyft is worth a few more dollars to get there on time (assuming no traffic) and without a chance of any other headaches. There's too many delays, service interruptions, etc with public transit also, so it all adds up to be a better experience with Uber/Lyft at a low cost per person.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#237

Post by ThePadawan » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 1:28 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #104

idoh wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not such a dilemma - most of the "bad" riders are also fare evaders. If SF simply put in any effort to make sure that riders actually paid for their trips, that would solve 90% of the problem. Riding the bus for free is not a civil right.

But not all fare evaders are "bad" riders. Some are just broke. I guess we could rehash all the "poverty causes so much unnecessary crime" argument but I'd rather not. I'd like to see what happens if all the buses became free, with reasonable counter-actions taken (i.e. increased funding from city budget to offset loss of ticket costs, more buses to handle increased ridership, etc).

Keep your eyes on Germany - they are currently considering free public transport in some major cities due to pollution [1] (Feb 2018).

Of note though: Apparently making it free was too expensive, so now only a "great reduction in price" is considered [2] (June 2018).

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/14/german-cities-... [2] https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/german-cities-slash...

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#238

Post by logfromblammo » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #189

sharkmerry wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And the proper way to argue with such a person is to write the fourth-power rule on a large sheet of paper, roll it up into a small, tight cone, and stab them in the eye with it. What a nice reasonable start to a discussion. >> Road wear is proportional to axle weight to the fourth power. Gas tax is proportional to total weight to the first power. Great, I didnt argue for a gas tax. You are arguing about road capa…

When 'logfromblammo' says "such a person", he is referring to a person who complains that cyclists aren't paying their fair share of road taxes. He was not attacking you, although he may have been attacking 'kazinator', the author of the comment he responded to. Personally, I enjoyed both the creative phrasing that 'kazinator' chose and the imagery of the response from 'logfromblammo', and think both of them were hav…

The damage a bicyclist does to a road by riding on it, in comparison to that caused by large trucks, storms, and freeze-thaw cycles, is effectively zero. The "fair share" of a bicyclist for roads maintenance is thus zero, as we stopped chopping pennies up into farthings a long time ago.

The fairest use tax for roads would be to charge passenger vehicles and road tractors annually, proportional to ("wet weight"/ 2 )^4, and separately charge the semi-trailers attached to the road tractors for each trip, proportional to ( loaded weight / 4 )^4 * trip distance.

Anyone suggesting that bicycles cause any kind of burden to the roads themselves, rather than just to urban traffic patterns and traffic congestion, need a memorable explanation of the fourth-power rule. Which they can read with their remaining eye.~

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#239

Post by rossdavidh » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

dagoat wrote: post #147

rossdavidh wrote: post #95

I live in Austin, which for a period of time had basically driven out Uber and Lyft with regulation. Then, the Texas state government overruled the city, and Uber and Lyft came back. I can say from personal experience, our traffic did not get the slightest bit better when Uber and Lyft were gone. However, our drunk driving rates did apparently go up.

In that time they were gone, didn't about 6-12 other companies offering the same service spin up/get popular? Which are probably not doing as great now Lyft and Uber are back.

You are correct, but from my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, none of them became as commonly used as Uber/Lyft were, before or after. This maybe would have changed eventually, had the situation persisted longer.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#240

Post by CydeWeys » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

hughes wrote: post #194

CydeWeys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. People also spend lots of time driving around looking for an empty free on-street parking spot. In some congested cities this can be a sizable proportion of overall traffic. If the Uber is getting back-to-back trips, they're probably driving more efficiently on average.

Every uber trip also frees up a parking spot compared to driving yourself.

Also a good point. Parking accounts for double digit percentages of land use in nearly all American cities. It's such a huge waste of space, and the cities would be denser, more walkable, and way more pleasant without it. More info here: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/07/12/american-cities-are-d...