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The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

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Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#51

Post by gutnor »

lucozade wrote: post #32
tokyodude wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't a clue about the whether the bailouts were important or not. What I feel like I would have liked is for the bailouts to happen AND the top 20 to 100 people from every financial institution to have gone to prison for at least 10 years. The president of Goldman Sachs, the president (or ex-President) of Lehman, etc... etc... What it seems like from the outside is they screwed the world over and completely got…

Is it their failure you believe they should be jailed for or something else? Do you believe that the CEO of any company that fails should be jailed or just banks? There was undoubtedly plenty of hubris, greed and incompetence to go round. I also believe that some of what occurred should, in hindsight, have been illegal. But having some sort of sacrifice to appease the gods is a little outdated. Oh, and yes, all the C…

> I also believe that some of what occurred should, in hindsight, have been illegal.

That is the main issue. Nothing you can do against individuals that acted legally.

However hindsight happened very quickly, almost from day 1. There is no excuse that the bailouts didn't come with extremely punitive string attached only loosened after the law had been updated.

That did not happen. There is no moral to the story, no happy ending. Worse, hindsight works both ways. Maybe the current generation of financial company executives have learned their lesson, but the next one will have no such reserve.

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#52

Post by chiefalchemist »

koolba wrote: post #35
tokyodude wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't a clue about the whether the bailouts were important or not. What I feel like I would have liked is for the bailouts to happen AND the top 20 to 100 people from every financial institution to have gone to prison for at least 10 years. The president of Goldman Sachs, the president (or ex-President) of Lehman, etc... etc... What it seems like from the outside is they screwed the world over and completely got…

What crime did each of those executives commit? That’s what needs to be answered. Otherwise your comment reads like a mob chanting “ We want blood! ” Being greedy is not a crime. Taking advantage of lax regulations is not a crime. Being bailed out with tax dollars for risks that paid you off privately if they won is not a crime.

Some would probably settle for blood.

However, plenty of others aren't interested in that. What they seek is simply what we are told the republic promises us and the rest of the world.

That is, justice.

Instead, per the article, there was no justice and no closure. __And__ the voice(s) of the mob(s) - in the absence of justice - are raising louder and louder. The impact from 2008 is far from over.

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#53

Post by teekert »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #29
teekert wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will they pay the bill or will they revolt? I feel it is time for some of the latter.

The trouble with revolutions is you end up with a new set of leaders, who may well be worse than what you have now.

It served the US quite well the last time they did it around 1776.

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#54

Post by m_st »

nicktelford wrote: post #39

While a generally fascinating piece that connects together the events in the American and European financial and political systems, it shouldn't be understated how much of an effect the refugee crisis is having on European politics, which can be attributed largely to the "Arab Spring"; itself largely a consequence of the 2008 financial crisis.

Could you elaborate the link of the Arab Spring to the 2008 financial crisis? I can't think of a link and neither does the English Wikipedia article.

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#55

Post by heavenlyblue »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #37
heavenlyblue wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are incompetent and they have consciously taken the positions they hold - then they are liable. Finance isn't "revolutionary" tech - there isn't much you can do that requires high risks and actually rewards you in the long run. I would wonder what you'd say about a general who didn't know that using chemical warfare is a possible tribunal scenario. We have a similar legal case in maritime law, where captains…

> Finance isn't "revolutionary" tech - there isn't much you can do that requires high risks and actually rewards you in the long run. I don't think you read the article because it is based on a 700 page book about how it was revolutionary tech. It was just revolutionary finance tech. There was no ABCP before, there were no CDOs before, there were no central bank swaps before, there was no wholesale funding market, th…

>> you're left defending a claim that virtually every banker and most companies

I don't need to defend that claim: most companies didn't care and neither they had enough resources to do their own, full due diligence into the state of America at the point of time. That's the job of the banks.

The fact that Russian companies held their debt in dollars has nothing to do with CDOs but rather their (false) belief in the stability of American economy.

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#56

Post by thdxr »

m_st wrote: post #54
nicktelford wrote: post #39

While a generally fascinating piece that connects together the events in the American and European financial and political systems, it shouldn't be understated how much of an effect the refugee crisis is having on European politics, which can be attributed largely to the "Arab Spring"; itself largely a consequence of the 2008 financial crisis.

Could you elaborate the link of the Arab Spring to the 2008 financial crisis? I can't think of a link and neither does the English Wikipedia article.

Probably referring to the narrative of rising commodity costs driving revolt. Not a very substantiated view as commodity costs in the area have been worse in the not to distant past

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#57

Post by imgabe »

lucozade wrote: post #32
tokyodude wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't a clue about the whether the bailouts were important or not. What I feel like I would have liked is for the bailouts to happen AND the top 20 to 100 people from every financial institution to have gone to prison for at least 10 years. The president of Goldman Sachs, the president (or ex-President) of Lehman, etc... etc... What it seems like from the outside is they screwed the world over and completely got…

Is it their failure you believe they should be jailed for or something else? Do you believe that the CEO of any company that fails should be jailed or just banks? There was undoubtedly plenty of hubris, greed and incompetence to go round. I also believe that some of what occurred should, in hindsight, have been illegal. But having some sort of sacrifice to appease the gods is a little outdated. Oh, and yes, all the C…

It was not failure. It was at the very least gross negligence, if not outright theft and fraud.

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#59

Post by compcoffee »

andrepd wrote: post #41
nafey wrote: post #2

But what was the alternative to the bailouts? Another depression? I feel we made it across fairly well.

The bailouts are controversial, but it's the bailouts AND the complete absence of criminal responsibility that's inexcusable. It is well known and documented that the financial crisis was no accident; everybody who headed the financial services industry to the state it was in did so knowingly , knowing full well the inevitable consequences, but not giving a damn because the arrangement let them to become handsomely w…

>Then while we (working class) were dealing with the fallout

On the ground, parts of the financial services and the "working class" were responsible.

This story that it was simply a bunch of innocent people trying to fulfill the American Dream of owning a home is hogwash. People were knowingly buying property beyond what they could afford because prices would "always go up" and they could flip it to a greater fool. Greed, pure and simple, and both parties were complicit.

Don't believe me? Go watch one of the multitude of flipping shows from the era.

>Much to the contrary, they went on enjoying the same mind-boggling luxurious elite lifestyle they always did.

Let me guess, you don't work in the financial industry? Would it surprise you to learn that not everyone in it (and responsible) is a CEO? The industry was gutted, and many in it paid the price with their jobs. Why do you desire a pound of flesh?

Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis

#60

Post by compcoffee »

lucozade wrote: post #32
tokyodude wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't a clue about the whether the bailouts were important or not. What I feel like I would have liked is for the bailouts to happen AND the top 20 to 100 people from every financial institution to have gone to prison for at least 10 years. The president of Goldman Sachs, the president (or ex-President) of Lehman, etc... etc... What it seems like from the outside is they screwed the world over and completely got…

Is it their failure you believe they should be jailed for or something else? Do you believe that the CEO of any company that fails should be jailed or just banks? There was undoubtedly plenty of hubris, greed and incompetence to go round. I also believe that some of what occurred should, in hindsight, have been illegal. But having some sort of sacrifice to appease the gods is a little outdated. Oh, and yes, all the C…

>Do you believe that the CEO of any company that fails should be jailed or just banks?

Watch Silicon Valley scramble to adjust their moral compass if Tesla fails in the same manner.

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