Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can totally see people stealing Teslas, if you bring $100 worth of jamming equipment with you, it won't be disabled remotely. The cellular frequencies that a Tesla uses for M2M connections back to the mothership are not rocket science to jam. At least not before it's driven into a warehouse somewhere and cut apart to be cannibalized for repair parts, then parts shipped overseas.
Repair parts for what? Who will purchase these?
Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
21–30 of 35 posts
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#22"We have only been able to verify our attack on a Tesla Model S in practice. However, Tesla did not design this system themselves but purchased it from Pektron. ... Pektron also designed keyless entry solutions for manufacturers such as McLaren, Karma and Triumph. ... This leads us to believe that the attack described here also affects the other manufacturers."
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
The obvious choice is to sort of skip the crypto entirely. The key fob can hold more than enough 128-bit random numbers to last the life of the car. Think about how much we can put on a little USB device these days. Cross off codes as they are used. This only requires a 1-way signal and a transmit button. If the car can just ask for a code, without a button being pressed, then you have the problem of a foe tunneling…
Exactly (the last part). There's a fundamental weakness here. Fixing the obvious weakness in the single sided authentication and weak crypto isn't enough to fundamentally solve it. Not sure there's _any_ way to fully make this secure. AFAIK, Model 3 doesn't have this feature & vulnerability.
The key fob and car contain identical pre-shared random data. (could be gigabytes) Each transaction uses 4 tokens, 2 going in each direction, with each token being 128 bits.
Upon a button press, the key fob selects and destroys the next 1-time-use token it contains. It begins to transmit.
First the key fob sends a token. The car must respond with the correct token, which is checked by the key fob. Failure causes radio silence. After a few padding bits to allow for that checking, the car sends another token. The key fob XORs this one with the key fob's second token, which is then transmitted. The car takes note of the latency.
Each 100 ns delay (a single bit at 10 megabit/second) is worth about 30 meters at the speed of light. The car can use this to exclude key fobs that are excessively distant.
Now consider the repeater attack. The key fob is somehow mistakenly activated. The attacker forwards the signal over a microwave relay to the car, and does likewise for the signal going back to the key fob. Responses arrive late, causing rejection.
You don't much need crypto here. It's just XOR with a 1-time pad. Cheaper cars should just to that alone, with 1-way transmission. Expensive cars should do 2-way and measure the timing, but they don't need fancier crypto.
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can totally see people stealing Teslas, if you bring $100 worth of jamming equipment with you, it won't be disabled remotely. The cellular frequencies that a Tesla uses for M2M connections back to the mothership are not rocket science to jam. At least not before it's driven into a warehouse somewhere and cut apart to be cannibalized for repair parts, then parts shipped overseas.
Repair parts for what? Who will purchase these?
Or people who want $20,000 worth of 100kWh 18650 battery conveniently packaged with connectors and cooling system.
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly (the last part). There's a fundamental weakness here. Fixing the obvious weakness in the single sided authentication and weak crypto isn't enough to fundamentally solve it. Not sure there's _any_ way to fully make this secure. AFAIK, Model 3 doesn't have this feature & vulnerability.
Proposal for expensive cars that don't require a button press: The key fob and car contain identical pre-shared random data. (could be gigabytes) Each transaction uses 4 tokens, 2 going in each direction, with each token being 128 bits. Upon a button press, the key fob selects and destroys the next 1-time-use token it contains. It begins to transmit. First the key fob sends a token. The car must respond with the corr…
a) Car companies won't want to hand out fobs that have any sort of writable memory, takes battery, and risks write memory wearout. Never seen a fob or smartcard that has memory which is written with every individual transaction. Having the fob do a computation on every transaction means it will need a lot more battery (in Wh per year) compared to a regular remote-unlock key fob for an ordinary passenger car.
b) High precision RF travel/distance timing, onboard computer system in the car capable of reliably determining to within 100ns timing interval, taking into account randomness in the real world environment such as reflections from nearby low-e class windows, metal structures, and such, may not be cheap or easy to implement.
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#26Oh dear. Seriously, 24-bit and 40-bit crypto of any variety? Was it really so hard in the year 2013 to put at least a 128-bit AES key in the card? With a sufficient directional panel antenna you could impersonate a car and query pocketed fobs in whole crowds of somewhat wealthy individuals. Aim the antenna and rig at the seating area of a trade show for middle/upper management types in the technology industry, for in…
The obvious choice is to sort of skip the crypto entirely. The key fob can hold more than enough 128-bit random numbers to last the life of the car. Think about how much we can put on a little USB device these days. Cross off codes as they are used. This only requires a 1-way signal and a transmit button. If the car can just ask for a code, without a button being pressed, then you have the problem of a foe tunneling…
Don't invent crypto.
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#27Even in more recent years, most of them seemingly do not implement
(1) Time of flight checks, e.g. that a radio relay isn't being used to get to the keyfob many more meters away in the house using a relay/amplifier. This is a commonly exploited theft method currently. The Apple watch implements this to unlock your MacBook Pro(!) This has also been shown to be a viable attack method on many contactless payment terminals.
(2) Replay protection - another possible common attack is to receive the rolling code from transmitter, jam it so the car can't hear it and wait for the remote to transmit a second one. Then you jam that also, store that code, but then re-transmit the first code and the car unlocks and now you have a second code to use to unlock the car later. It's possible to both receive and jam the code by using a very precise tuned receiver, and jam in the surrounding the frequencies which in most cases the actual receiver (e.g. car) won't have filtered out. This works particularly well on most garage doors.
(3) Let alone having some kind of recoverable/brute forcible ID scheme, which as we can see here, is also true. I'm sure these aren't the only ones.
It's kindof silly really. I'd be curious to know if any manufacturers have been fixing this in the last couple of years.
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#28"Tesla responded to this by upgrading key fobs’ encryption in June and adding an optional PIN to cars last month. If your Model S is older than June, you can get a new key fob, turn on a PIN, or disable passive (no-click) unlocking" https://twitter.com/a_greenberg/status/1039202487822106624
"Just one more thing. Everybody is making fun of Tesla for using a 40-bit key (and rightly so). But Tesla at least had a mechanism we could report to and fixed the problem once informed. @McLarenAuto, @KarmaAutomotive, and @UKTriumph use the same system and ignored us." https://twitter.com/TomerAshur/status/1039245324441792513
Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#29Re: Tesla Model S Can Be Stolen in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Proposal for expensive cars that don't require a button press: The key fob and car contain identical pre-shared random data. (could be gigabytes) Each transaction uses 4 tokens, 2 going in each direction, with each token being 128 bits. Upon a button press, the key fob selects and destroys the next 1-time-use token it contains. It begins to transmit. First the key fob sends a token. The car must respond with the corr…
This is not a bad idea but I can think of two problems in real world execution: a) Car companies won't want to hand out fobs that have any sort of writable memory, takes battery, and risks write memory wearout. Never seen a fob or smartcard that has memory which is written with every individual transaction. Having the fob do a computation on every transaction means it will need a lot more battery (in Wh per year) com…
Write memory wearout is not an issue. You can do this with write-once memory, so you don't even need flash. Manufacture the device with FF bytes, load keys into it by clearing bits, and then dispose of keys by clearing the rest of the bits. The same could apply to the car, or that could be different. Billions of keys could fit on a key fob.
Wearing out the car door hinges will happen long before wearing out the key fob storage.
Timing... well I don't know, but common ethernet chips have registers that tell the OS how long the cable is. Cars also ship with radar that has much tighter time measurement requirements.