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Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

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Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#71

Post by tfehring »

p33p wrote: post #57

As an actuary, I can not recommend it to anyone with a technical background. I have degrees in mathematics and actuarial science, and I consider my actuarial science degree completely worthless. A mathematics and/or computer science degree will teach you more in terms of how to think than anyone with an actuarial science degree. If you’d like to take a major where your professors literally teach to the exam/test, the…

I'm also an actuary, and I agree with all of this. I personally had a better experience with my undergraduate coursework thanks to a flexible program - I took no exam prep courses and close to 30 credits' worth of CS courses - but it's definitely the norm for an actuarial science major to essentially be an exam prep major.

There are lots of data science roles at insurance companies, many of which seek out current and former actuaries, so that's probably the easiest foot-in-the-door role to transition out of the field if that's more in line with what you're looking for. However, I'm sure those roles are pretty boring as data science goes.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#72

Post by thedevil »

alouisos wrote: post #60

Beware, actuarial science will be replaced by AI and the incentives of insurance is high to replace this workforce with AI. Believe me, I have been doing an AI startup in exactly this space

I wouldn't be too confident in that. Actuaries are not able to implement the models they'd like to. Regulators don't like complex models and they don't like models with disparate impact. Or models that make some risks (accurately) expensive.

I'm a developer now but by last few years in actuary work were mostly spent helping insurance companies deal with regulation. We did some modeling with with machine learning but ultimately the models that got approved had to be simple (compared to machine learning). My job before that was a lot about internal negotiations with other departments.

Better models were not the main bottleneck.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#73

Post by plaguuuuuu »

randomstring wrote: post #32

Having done my BS in Match and CS at a school with a parallel Actuarial program, I got a good look at what being an actuary is about. If you're good at math, and really good at standardized math exams you can advance through the various levels and work your way up the pay-scale ladder. I think this really appeals to people who are good at math, but maybe don't want to go into academia. That said of all the actuaries…

I don't know any actuaries, but it always struck me as odd that the hardest working people in my last company were the actuaries.

I mean these guys were on presumably amazing salaries, were some of the smartest people, could work at any related insurance/finance/whatever company (of which there are a LOT hq'd in Sydney) and had worse hours than most other teams. I just don't understand it.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#74

Post by madeuptempacct »

tfehring wrote: post #64
dlevine wrote: post #26

I had a friend from college who became an actuary (he was a business major in college). It sounds like, once you finish the first several actuarial exams, you are pretty much set. You don't even need a degree in actuarial science, but it probably makes the exams easier. His job was pretty easy, and since he knew some basic programming, was able to build some Excel macros and wow the people he worked with. The work so…

>It sounds like, once you finish the first several actuarial exams, you are pretty much set. Typically you need ~3 exams to get a job in the field. Then it's a total of 7 exams for associateship and 10 for fellowship (for candidates starting today - it used to be fewer), plus various online courses throughout the process. You can stop at the associate level, but it limits your advancement opportunities at most compan…

So, what's the "light at the end of the tunnel" here? What's the expected, realistic salary after all ten exams?

The lure of the CFA is that $250,000 is not unusual. Except most people finishing their CFA never get an analyst job, so it's kind of a moot point.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#75

Post by tfehring »

dv_dt wrote: post #39
randomstring wrote: post #32

Having done my BS in Match and CS at a school with a parallel Actuarial program, I got a good look at what being an actuary is about. If you're good at math, and really good at standardized math exams you can advance through the various levels and work your way up the pay-scale ladder. I think this really appeals to people who are good at math, but maybe don't want to go into academia. That said of all the actuaries…

What do actuaries do from day to day? Are they old-school original data scientists, or something else?

The day-to-day is basically a combination of:

* Moving data around - mostly using Excel + SQL, though R is growing in popularity

* Using that data to calculate figures that are significant to the business - including premiums, IRRs, profit margins, and the value of future claims

* Presenting the results of those calculations to management and recommending a course of action

I'm not sure what "old-school original data scientists" do/did or how similar this is.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#76

Post by djsumdog »

I had a friend who wanted to be a radiologist because he uses some income calculators and decided that would be what would give him the biggest return on his investment. Guy had trouble passing Anatomy I; think he had to take it twice. From the way he talked, I don't think he realized it was a full MD position; residency and all. Guy was not suited to be a doctor.

It took him years, marriage to an abusive woman, the Air Force and a divorce to finally get out of the idea he would be a doctor. Recently he tried to hire me to write software for a "Crypto currency hedge fund."

TL;DR If you chase after money, you're going to miss out on life. The US market wants to turn University into a huge investment you need an ROI on to lock you into a career path you'll probably hate. It was not like that for me, and I only graduated 12 years ago. Small state schools were affordable.

I learned a lot in school, but today I can't even recommend it to people starting out, unless they can do it with little to no debt. I cannot recommend bootcamp or other for-profit schools.

I wish it was easier for people to find something they love doing and not have to worry about money.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#77

Post by mehrdadn »

plaguuuuuu wrote: post #73
randomstring wrote: post #32

Having done my BS in Match and CS at a school with a parallel Actuarial program, I got a good look at what being an actuary is about. If you're good at math, and really good at standardized math exams you can advance through the various levels and work your way up the pay-scale ladder. I think this really appeals to people who are good at math, but maybe don't want to go into academia. That said of all the actuaries…

I don't know any actuaries, but it always struck me as odd that the hardest working people in my last company were the actuaries. I mean these guys were on presumably amazing salaries, were some of the smartest people, could work at any related insurance/finance/whatever company (of which there are a LOT hq'd in Sydney) and had worse hours than most other teams. I just don't understand it.

Is it implausible that they might be getting amazing salaries because they are the hardest-working? (Why?)

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#78

Post by eyeball »

p33p wrote: post #69
madeuptempacct wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am guessing it's easy to transition to machine learning / data analysis and make 20-40% over what senior devs make. At least that's what I see in my area.

I would be really impressed if someone with an actuarial science degree has any experience with machine learning. That is not a skill that is taught outside of self learning or an absolute need. It may be more applicable in a property casualty company where there are things like telematics.

The society of actuaries is now testing basic analytics and R programming as part of the exam system. The Introduction to statistical learning book is on the exam syllabus.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#80

Post by analog31 »

vostok wrote: post #65
rm999 wrote: post #5

Full dataset is here: https://www.scribd.com/document/388081338/BANKRATE-Most-Valu... For those of you who are wondering, Computer Engineering is 14th, "Mathematics and Computer Science" is 23rd and Computer Science is 30th. If I had to guess, CS has a wider income distribution than many of the higher ranking degrees, which are dominated by engineering degrees (many of which have lower unemployment rates too). The no…

I'm very surprised that economics and finance are higher than computer science. I would have expected that corporate finance jobs would have brought the average below that of CS.

It's possible that the ability to get a programming job without a CS degree depresses the earning power of that degree simply by increasing the size of the applicant pool. Also, someone who can short circuit the higher education route by getting a job without a degree might be willing to work for a lower starting salary, and still come out ahead.
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