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Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

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Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#51

Post by amigocontigo »

nateburke wrote: post #41

One thing missing from this discussion is the effect of the well-established exam-based credentialing system on the profession as a barrier to entry. Does it counterbalance at all the kind of ageism that folks working as 45+ software engineers sometimes encounter? This is a sincere question, as I can also would not be surprised if insurance companies' CFOs would be the _first_ people to recognize the additional costs…

In my experience (as an actuary) dealing with CFOs - this thought never crosses their mind. Even the most incompetent C-suite execs I have dealt with understand the value of hiring the best people they can find.

In general, companies don't deal with rising healthcare costs by hiring younger, less experienced workers. Instead, they restructure their insurance plans to alleviate the increase in insurance premiums. This part of what health actuaries (at least on the consulting side of things) do on a daily basis.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#52

Post by stochastic_monk »

mr_overalls wrote: post #42
dv_dt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do actuaries do from day to day? Are they old-school original data scientists, or something else?

A day in the life of an actuary: https://www.beanactuary.org/what/do/?fa=day-in-the-life

Edit: this isn’t about the day-to-day, but it gives perspective from an actuary I know who has served other roles.

My mother is an actuary. She was a stay at home mom for 25 years but returned to the workforce about 5 years ago and recently became VP at a large insurance company.

She says she’s always enjoyed her work as an actuary, and she preferred it over college math instruction, which she could do because FSAs are considered PhD-level. (And did while her 6 children were home.)

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#53

Post by amigocontigo »

randomstring wrote: post #32

Having done my BS in Match and CS at a school with a parallel Actuarial program, I got a good look at what being an actuary is about. If you're good at math, and really good at standardized math exams you can advance through the various levels and work your way up the pay-scale ladder. I think this really appeals to people who are good at math, but maybe don't want to go into academia. That said of all the actuaries…

> If you're good at math, and really good at standardized math exams you can advance through the various levels and work your way up the pay-scale ladder

I was able to more than double my starting salary (ending at around 135k with bonus) 3 years out of school.

I worked in consulting and thought the work was incredibly boring. The main issue is that a lot of people in the field, even those good at passing exams, aren't particularly good at advanced modeling or programming. This means no one can or is interested in peer-reviewing complex models and as a result you end up spending most of your time shoveling numbers around in Excel. It was also very stressful. Leaving the profession, despite the time I sunk in it, was the best decision I ever made.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#54

Post by madrox »

I did a stats undergrad at one of the few schools to offer that kind of program. Many of my peers went on to be actuaries.

I'd actually recommend any undergrad program that has a strong underpinning in statistical thinking. It's very difficult to learn without formal education and is oh so very useful in so many fields right now.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#56

Post by GlenTheMachine »

harshreality wrote: post #30
grouseway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for some it is a very stressful job. They have a very high suicide rate: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4266064/ "The rate of suicide in the veterinary profession has been pegged as close to twice that of the dental profession, more than twice that of the medical profession (2), and 4 times the rate in the general population (3)."

correlation or causation? I could easily imagine that more depressed people pursue veterinary jobs because being around animals makes them less depressed.

The debt load of veterinarians is pretty staggering. Going to vet school is as expensive as going to medical school, but the pay is considerably less than an MD makes. It is not at all unusual for a vet to graduate with $300k+ in student debt, and to still be paying that debt down well into their fifties or even sixties.

You also have to deal with pet owners who are... let's say irrational. People seem to be even more willing to believe in homeopathy or nutritional fads or essential oils when dealing with their pet's health than with their own. The bills for veterinary care are not as high as for human medicine, except that most people don't have pet insurance and so pay much higher out of pocket bills than for their own health care, which makes the emotional stakes even higher. And owners will not hesitate to trash you on social media. The issue here is that to a much greater extent than doctors, veterinarians gain new patients by word of mouth and recommendations. So reputation is even more important than it is to doctors. A few ugly, well-placed reviews in Yelp or Facebook can do considerable harm.

All of this leads to an extremely stressful job, especially for younger vets or vets with young children.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#57

Post by p33p »

As an actuary, I can not recommend it to anyone with a technical background.

I have degrees in mathematics and actuarial science, and I consider my actuarial science degree completely worthless. A mathematics and/or computer science degree will teach you more in terms of how to think than anyone with an actuarial science degree. If you’d like to take a major where your professors literally teach to the exam/test, then you’re in luck, because that’s what your degree will get.

Having been in the workforce a handful of years now, there are a lot of intelligent actuaries and also a lot of arrogance about the work they have done.

I personally am frustrated with the career, but the salary in a low cost of living area makes it difficult to transition into something else.

Given all of this, the valuation of how majors are ranked is silly to me. The criteria almost automatically weight actuarial science as the favorite.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#58

Post by madeuptempacct »

p33p wrote: post #57

As an actuary, I can not recommend it to anyone with a technical background. I have degrees in mathematics and actuarial science, and I consider my actuarial science degree completely worthless. A mathematics and/or computer science degree will teach you more in terms of how to think than anyone with an actuarial science degree. If you’d like to take a major where your professors literally teach to the exam/test, the…

I am guessing it's easy to transition to machine learning / data analysis and make 20-40% over what senior devs make. At least that's what I see in my area.

Re: Actuarial science ranked as most valuable college major

#59

Post by madeuptempacct »

rm999 wrote: post #5

Full dataset is here: https://www.scribd.com/document/388081338/BANKRATE-Most-Valu... For those of you who are wondering, Computer Engineering is 14th, "Mathematics and Computer Science" is 23rd and Computer Science is 30th. If I had to guess, CS has a wider income distribution than many of the higher ranking degrees, which are dominated by engineering degrees (many of which have lower unemployment rates too). The no…

I can't imagine finding a decent job in Finance without connections, I say this as a CFA.
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