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A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

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Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#71

Post by longerthoughts »

tibbon wrote: post #37

One of the biggest issues that I see is where the cars pull over to pick up / drop off people. They almost always just stop in the middle of streets, double parking. Rarely do they pull over into an empty spot that's safer for them and passengers. This often causes traffic backup, at least in the Boston area.

Shocked that more people aren't bringing this up. I frequently see blocks turn into complete traffic jams because a couple of Ubers/Lyfts double park, sometimes on opposite sides of a one-way street.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#72

Post by blang »

scythe wrote: post #23
cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

The buses are fine. What's missing are the little screens that tell people when the bus is going to arrive. If buses arrive every fifteen minutes, and people would be willing to wait for a bus instead of Uber if the bus will arrive in less than five minutes, then simply adding screens means 33% of people no longer hail a ride. Yes, there is NextBus, but anyone who's used NextBus knows that it often takes longer to fi…

Like these?

https://kingcounty.gov/~/media/depts/transportation/metro/tr...

https://kingcounty.gov/depts/transportation/metro/travel-opt...

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#73

Post by nine_k »

scythe wrote: post #23
cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

The buses are fine. What's missing are the little screens that tell people when the bus is going to arrive. If buses arrive every fifteen minutes, and people would be willing to wait for a bus instead of Uber if the bus will arrive in less than five minutes, then simply adding screens means 33% of people no longer hail a ride. Yes, there is NextBus, but anyone who's used NextBus knows that it often takes longer to fi…

I have this little screen in my pocket, it's called "mobile phone". It shows me bus arrival times in NYC pretty accurately. It showed me bus arrival times in Moscow where I recently traveled, right on the maps apps.

If your city still lacks this, maybe you should let your municipal representative, or your bus company, know that you want it.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#74

Post by Kalium »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #32
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Urban living is not without risk, and trashing the commons is not a solution. You can work towards making public transportation safer, improving public transit in general, and reducing the congestion caused by ridesharing (through congestion charges) all at the same time. EDIT: I'm not dismissing the inherent risks of public transportation and interactions, I'm stating it is a risk that must be accepted as a conditio…

While perhaps accurate, dismissing risks as baked into the lifestyle is notorious for being ineffectual in getting people to accept said risks as unavoidable and unmitigatable. Especially since many people have been to other places that have public transit but seem to have less of the issues posited as inevitable.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#75

Post by nine_k »

vkou wrote: post #12
pwned1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubers and Lyfts pay the $0.25 per gallon New York gas tax, plus sales tax on top of both state and federal gas taxes (tax on a tax), so they are paying for road infrastructure, just like everyone else. It's important to note that public transit agencies don't pay gas tax, and a large portion of the federal highway fund is diverted to public transit agencies.

Gas tax does not go nearly enough of the way to paying for infrastructure. Most road maintenance is paid for by property and income taxes. $0.25/gallon is peanuts. New York (State) consumed ~135 million barrels of gas last year. That's 1.35 billion dollars of gas taxes. (Less in reality, because some commercial uses are exempt from these taxes, or can deduct them as expenses.) The NY DOT's maintenance budget, alone i…

Is NY DOT known for frugal and efficient use of funds?

(I don't know, so I'm asking. E.g. MTA is known for the opposite.)

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#76

Post by vkou »

nine_k wrote: post #75
vkou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas tax does not go nearly enough of the way to paying for infrastructure. Most road maintenance is paid for by property and income taxes. $0.25/gallon is peanuts. New York (State) consumed ~135 million barrels of gas last year. That's 1.35 billion dollars of gas taxes. (Less in reality, because some commercial uses are exempt from these taxes, or can deduct them as expenses.) The NY DOT's maintenance budget, alone i…

Is NY DOT known for frugal and efficient use of funds? (I don't know, so I'm asking. E.g. MTA is known for the opposite.)

It doesn't really matter. Someone has to pay, and right now, it's taxpayers at large, as opposed to drivers in particular. [1]

Its inefficiency would actually be a point in favor of shifting costs to direct users of infrastructure - it would incentivise a reduction in use (Of a service provided by an inefficient department.)

[1] Yes, I know, gas taxes are regressive. This issue is a bit more complicated then I let on - but if we were to take a purely market economics approach, I feel that my points stand well.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#77

Post by nine_k »

NickBusey wrote: post #18

>> .. when people use a ride-hailing company, they are opting to do so rather than take public transportation, walk or bike. They generally are not choosing between hailing and driving themselves. This doesn't seem correct to me. If I can ride my bike or walk somewhere, I will do that pretty much every time. The only time I ever consider an Uber or Lyft is if the distance is too far to bike, and I would rather not dr…

I strongly prefer public transport where it's available, and when convenient.

Sometimes I need to go across the usual lines of the subway / bus traffic, and any reasonable route would have 2 transfers and be circuitous. Or maybe I'm carrying a couple of heavy bags from an airport. In cases like these I'd hail a car. Such cases are not frequent, but being able to hail a car at such moments is very convenient.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#78

Post by extragood »

maxander wrote: post #58
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Do you think that these Ubers-but-with-buses would be cheap enough that the homeless could ride them? Most urban public transportation operates at a substantial loss; a private busing company would cost several times more than standard fare. It would be about as securely class-protected an experience as an Uber pool ride.

[Chariot](https://www.chariot.com/) has been around for a while and does exactly that.

> In the SF Bay Area, rides are $3.80 during off-peak hours, and are $5 during peak hours.

I have no idea what their operations or financials look like, but they have survived for at least a few years, so the business model must be at least somewhat viable.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#79

Post by fipple »

nradov wrote: post #55
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Several people (mainly women) have told me that they're afraid to take public transit in the SF Bay Area due to the other riders. I'm not sure how we fix that problem without restricting civil rights in ways that would be unconstitutional and politically unacceptable. It's a real dilemma.

You set rules for society and harshly punish people who break them. Look at Singapore.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#80

Post by foldr »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27
cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

> (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Sharing a subway car with dancers isn't anywhere near as dangerous as sharing a road with other vehicles.

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