Judging by the list of "Ignorance, war, poverty, dirt, disease, frustration, hunger, fear, overwork, superstition all vanished." it seems many of us are living in a utopia yet we still aren't satisfied.
Are you? Do you have no worries in the world?
Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
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Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#12There's a fundamental conflict between conceptual Utopia/Heaven and the law of supply and demand. All literary conceptions of a utopia rely on abundance of some good that is scarce in the author's time. Usually ignoring that its ubiquity makes it tend toward zero value. Here's my stab at Utopia, but it requires a belief that Knowledge is infinite: Utopia is a state of unhindered, continual learning at your own chosen…
It looks like we both independently came to the same conclusion, though I have a “solution” to the finite knowledge problem :)
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#13The problem, at least back then, was that fun and such “non-essential” things were considered either bourgeois or vulgar. Both of which were looked down upon because they were the opposite of work and progress and the greater good. At least to some in power.
This comment looks almost entirely unrelated to the text of the linked article.
I'd have to agree. Here's the thesis of the article:
> The inability of mankind to imagine happiness except in the form of relief, either from effort or pain, presents Socialists with a serious problem. Dickens can describe a poverty-stricken family tucking into a roast goose, and can make them appear happy; on the other hand, the inhabitants of perfect universes seem to have no spontaneous gaiety and are usually somewhat repulsive into the bargain. But clearly we are not aiming at the kind of world Dickens described, nor, probably, at any world he was capable of imagining. The Socialist objective is not a society where everything comes right in the end, because kind old gentlemen give away turkeys. What are we aiming at, if not a society in which ‘charity’ would be unnecessary? We want a world where Scrooge, with his dividends, and Tiny Tim, with his tuberculous leg, would both be unthinkable. But does that mean we are aiming at some painless, effortless Utopia? At the risk of saying something which the editors of Tribune may not endorse, I suggest that the real objective of Socialism is not happiness. Happiness hitherto has been a by-product, and for all we know it may always remain so. The real objective of Socialism is human brotherhood.
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#14A great anti-elitist rant.
Beautiful language: "Nearly all creators of Utopia have resembled the man who has toothache, and therefore thinks happiness consists in not having toothache. They wanted to produce a perfect society by an endless continuation of something that had only been valuable because it was temporary. ... when [Swift] tries to create a superman, [he] leaves one with the impression the very last he can have intended that the stinking Yahoos had in them more possibility of development than the enlightened Houyhnhnms."
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#15Judging by the list of "Ignorance, war, poverty, dirt, disease, frustration, hunger, fear, overwork, superstition all vanished." it seems many of us are living in a utopia yet we still aren't satisfied.
I'll wait for the list of places in the world in which there is no fear. Just that part of the list alone covers 100% of the population.
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#16There's a fundamental conflict between conceptual Utopia/Heaven and the law of supply and demand. All literary conceptions of a utopia rely on abundance of some good that is scarce in the author's time. Usually ignoring that its ubiquity makes it tend toward zero value. Here's my stab at Utopia, but it requires a belief that Knowledge is infinite: Utopia is a state of unhindered, continual learning at your own chosen…
Utopia is gratitude now.
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#17Judging by the list of "Ignorance, war, poverty, dirt, disease, frustration, hunger, fear, overwork, superstition all vanished." it seems many of us are living in a utopia yet we still aren't satisfied.
The article details why utopias defined as the absence of pain or the abundance of a scarce resource present a problem in terms of happiness.
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#18This article focuses on a utopia of worldy pleasures, and goes on to explain why such a place would be a pretty boring place to live. But that’s just human nature: we’re never permently satisfied with what we have. The only way that we feel happiness from these things is if we get more of whatever it is, and that’s kind of impossible in a utopia. However, I still think there’s a way to get satisfaction out of a world…
I would say through making. Making things gives life purpose, something to struggle against and triumph over. And you also get to learn. Learning for learning's sake doesn't give you the sense of purpose as learning in order to make something great .
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#19There's a fundamental conflict between conceptual Utopia/Heaven and the law of supply and demand. All literary conceptions of a utopia rely on abundance of some good that is scarce in the author's time. Usually ignoring that its ubiquity makes it tend toward zero value. Here's my stab at Utopia, but it requires a belief that Knowledge is infinite: Utopia is a state of unhindered, continual learning at your own chosen…
It looks like we both independently came to the same conclusion, though I have a “solution” to the finite knowledge problem :)
Is it alzheimer’s?
Re: Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun (1943)
#20There's a fundamental conflict between conceptual Utopia/Heaven and the law of supply and demand. All literary conceptions of a utopia rely on abundance of some good that is scarce in the author's time. Usually ignoring that its ubiquity makes it tend toward zero value. Here's my stab at Utopia, but it requires a belief that Knowledge is infinite: Utopia is a state of unhindered, continual learning at your own chosen…
It looks like we both independently came to the same conclusion, though I have a “solution” to the finite knowledge problem :)
Cool. The "saagball" theory of infinite happiness is born. The other order of names didn't sound right.