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How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

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Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#111

Post by emptyfile »

phobosdeimos wrote: post #104
quantummkv wrote: post #92

The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting. In the west and in the urban areas of SE Asia, these problems do not occur because the users are educated enough to u…

These "unsophisticated" people in India love their kids as people do everywhere and don't want them to get kidnapped and gang raped. Which does seem to happen an awful lot and can be read about in old media newspapers every day. Instead of blaming WhatsApp maybe the Indian government can start to make people feel safe.

So they lynch 5 strangers on the off chance they're criminals?

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#112

Post by Vinnl »

RyJones wrote: post #12

I was in Made, Netherlands, this summer and saw they had per-neighborhood/per-street signs for WhatsApp groups that the police monitored. I thought that was a little rich for such an isolated berg - the biggest crimes there probably deserve harsh looks and muttering. Next day, walking around Leverkusen, I saw the same thing. I asked around but my ability to ferret out who paid for these signs was exceeded by my desir…

I don't think police is usually in these groups; it's just intended as a warning sign for potential, say, burglars, that the people in the neighbourhood are watching out for each other.

In practice, these groups are sometimes used by the racist neighbour to "warn" their neighbours of dark-skinned people walking around. And it's useful for organising neighbourhood events.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#113

Post by Griffinsauce »

quantummkv wrote: post #110
puranjay wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are far from being uneducated, but even they believe that any forward sent through WhatsApp is actually from the authority figure mentioned in the message. Messages usually exploit this by mentioning how "XYZ warning" is according to scientists at NASA/MIT/IIT. My parents - who are both in their 70s - believe that these messages actually originated from NASA/MIT, etc. I don't know how to fight this. I've t…

The only way to stop this quick is to remove forwarding systems. If people have to make some non trivial effort to share stuff, that effort and time will be saved only for important stuff. No will spend time typing all this click bait for every single recipient. We can try education but that will take at least a generation or two to take effect.

Agreed. The only way is to restrict the virality. You can still retain the original intent of the feature by allowing single forwards (simply tag forwarded messages and don't allow them to be forwarded).

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#114

Post by vezycash »

quantummkv wrote: post #110
puranjay wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are far from being uneducated, but even they believe that any forward sent through WhatsApp is actually from the authority figure mentioned in the message. Messages usually exploit this by mentioning how "XYZ warning" is according to scientists at NASA/MIT/IIT. My parents - who are both in their 70s - believe that these messages actually originated from NASA/MIT, etc. I don't know how to fight this. I've t…

The only way to stop this quick is to remove forwarding systems. If people have to make some non trivial effort to share stuff, that effort and time will be saved only for important stuff. No will spend time typing all this click bait for every single recipient. We can try education but that will take at least a generation or two to take effect.

This is a problem that can take care of itself if left alone. It's resolvable only with experience. If not, we'll enable worse problems - oppressive governments.

I remember when first got online, I fell for every "make money online scheme." The experience thought me to subconsciously / automatically ignore them.

Rather than spend unnecessary resources on a technical solution or filter, lets inoculate them.

FAKE NEWS INOCULATION

Create more ridiculous rumors that can easily be debunked.

WhatsApp and other platforms can randomly spam their users with these lies and at the end of the message, write - its a joke, April fool or whatever.

With this, we'll get to nirvana in half the time, with 10% effort and resource.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#115

Post by TomK32 »

phobosdeimos wrote: post #104
quantummkv wrote: post #92

The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting. In the west and in the urban areas of SE Asia, these problems do not occur because the users are educated enough to u…

These "unsophisticated" people in India love their kids as people do everywhere and don't want them to get kidnapped and gang raped. Which does seem to happen an awful lot and can be read about in old media newspapers every day. Instead of blaming WhatsApp maybe the Indian government can start to make people feel safe.

I must point out that in most cases child abuse happens inside families. A stranger kidnapping a child is a rather rare occurrence. Prevention, giving kids a chance to get help, ban of child-marriages etc will help, tough laws and hard punishment will not.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#116

Post by Thiez »

sterlind wrote: post #96
sooheon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A: open communication and information never reaches them, we segregate them according to some prime directive, and they go on lynching each other and being backwards for all eternity until they arrive at internet #2 through convergent evolution. B: open communication and information reach them, some use it for productive ends and some use it to mobilize lynchings, after 1~2 generations of adjustment, education, adapt…

Simple: legally, treat WhatsApp groups as public message boards, and allow the local authorities to administer local WhatsApp groups the way you'd allow police to tear down signs put up on a cork-board in a public square. It's not rocket science.

Are you implying that whenever more than two people have a conversation on any chat application, the government should have the right to read along, for our own protection?

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#117

Post by Freak_NL »

schoen wrote: post #20
RyJones wrote: post #12

I was in Made, Netherlands, this summer and saw they had per-neighborhood/per-street signs for WhatsApp groups that the police monitored. I thought that was a little rich for such an isolated berg - the biggest crimes there probably deserve harsh looks and muttering. Next day, walking around Leverkusen, I saw the same thing. I asked around but my ability to ferret out who paid for these signs was exceeded by my desir…

I first thought you meant that the police monitored the groups nonconsensually in order to track the residents' activities, but then I realized you probably meant that the police are actively invited to participate in the groups in order to receive reports from the residents—is that right?

That's how it works. The local beat officer is usually invited in. I'm glad no one in my neighbourhood came up with this idea yet. It really irks me that a commercial entity dominates our public spaces to the level of bleeding street signs.

If you live in one of those neighbourhoods you either participate (meaning you are required to purchase an Android or IOS smartphone, and required to register an account with Facebook's WhatsApp) or get left out of the loop completely. So much for freedom to choose.

From what I've heard from people that do live in such neighbourhoods is that these group chats are a constant distraction of irrelevancies spammed by a handful of very active users. Successfully moderated groups of this type seem rare.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#118

Post by sooheon »

sterlind wrote: post #96
sooheon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A: open communication and information never reaches them, we segregate them according to some prime directive, and they go on lynching each other and being backwards for all eternity until they arrive at internet #2 through convergent evolution. B: open communication and information reach them, some use it for productive ends and some use it to mobilize lynchings, after 1~2 generations of adjustment, education, adapt…

Simple: legally, treat WhatsApp groups as public message boards, and allow the local authorities to administer local WhatsApp groups the way you'd allow police to tear down signs put up on a cork-board in a public square. It's not rocket science.

I agree it's not rocket science, it might be harder because we're dealing with human behavior.

The Salem witch hunts happened with full support of the "local authorities" to run investigations, interrogations, trials, and hangings. It was not for a lack of administration.

Next month when there's an article about a corrupt official extorting farmers, are we to say "at least farmers can't communicate or organize without authority oversight?"

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#119

Post by JeanMarcS »

quantummkv wrote: post #110
puranjay wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are far from being uneducated, but even they believe that any forward sent through WhatsApp is actually from the authority figure mentioned in the message. Messages usually exploit this by mentioning how "XYZ warning" is according to scientists at NASA/MIT/IIT. My parents - who are both in their 70s - believe that these messages actually originated from NASA/MIT, etc. I don't know how to fight this. I've t…

The only way to stop this quick is to remove forwarding systems. If people have to make some non trivial effort to share stuff, that effort and time will be saved only for important stuff. No will spend time typing all this click bait for every single recipient. We can try education but that will take at least a generation or two to take effect.

You’re right, but the problem is not with those apps. Before that, all that garbage was forwarded through e-mails.

My dad used to drive me crazy forwarding hoaxes. But in his case, it was because he knew it will, and found it amusing. As he told me « I only forward you a 10th of what I receive ! »

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#120

Post by pluma »

quantummkv wrote: post #92

The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting. In the west and in the urban areas of SE Asia, these problems do not occur because the users are educated enough to u…

You're making an awful lot of assumptions of both "educated, urban people" and "uneducated people in remote areas". We're all human and we all fall for these kinds of myths, just different ones.

Just look at "red pilling". Even with university level education it's easy to fall for various forms of propaganda, especially when it's "just the facts". White supremacists will happily cite "factual" crime statistics to nudge you into the direction of race realism and it takes conscious effort to understand that even if the numbers are 100% authentic that doesn't mean you can derive any useful solution if you just stop at "crime == black".

Everyone believes their life experience or education or "street smarts" means they're rational thinkers and can't be fooled. Then they get fooled. If we're lucky they realize it eventually. If not, they end up killing people.

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