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YouTube stars heading for burnout

theguardian.com

131–140 of 177 posts

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#131

The anxieties are tied up with the relentless nature of their work. Tyler Blevins, AKA Ninja, makes an estimated $500,000 (£384,000) every month via live broadcasts of him playing the video game Fortnite on Twitch, a service for livestreaming video games that is owned by Amazon. Most of Blevins’ revenue comes from Twitch subscribers or viewers who provide one-off donations (often in the hope that he will thank them b…

> This fits into the stereotype of Millennials as entitled. He makes 500k a month, but can't get off the hamster wheel? Poor soul.

That's why we have this new term, 'golden handcuffs', which has never been applied to anyone born before 1995.

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#132

As stupid as this is going to sound, I think about this quite a bit in terms of writing a blog. I've wanted to do it for a long time and in the past people have been very kind and supportive of my writing. However, when I think about the reality of what it takes to make a successful blog, I get very nervous about it. I mean, it's dumb because the chances of writing a successful blog is next to nil. And the way to exi…

Been writing on my blog, on and off, for... I don't even remember anymore (12 years?) I try to write as I am (a bit toned down probably): if I write something that a potential employer might not like, it was going to happen anyway in person (and I'm not so sure a potential employer may be that interested in digging into my writing).

If you want to write, write!

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#133

The neoliberal condition is in part characterized by the entrepreneurialization of everything, the penetration of Michel Foucault's homo economicus (entrepreneur of the self) into more and more spheres of production, consumption, and everyday life. Increasingly, you're an "entrepreneur" no matter what, whether you're a food truck owner, a freelance designer, an Uber driver, an Airbnb host, a YouTube star. Entrepreneu…

>This entrepreneurialization goes hand-in-hand with the condition of precarity, feeling like you have to work your ass off, have to stay at the top of your game, to keep making a living, because you have no other way to live.

It's more of a precarization than an entrepreneurialization.

An entrepreneur has bigger stakes but also a bigger payoff than being paid to ride their car as an Uber for example.

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#134
post #33

I respect people who have the ability to entertain thousands of viewers, I really do. At the same time I’m really happy that wasn’t even an option when I was young. I’m sure I would have spent even more time playing video games if esports, twitch and YouTube had been a thing in the 90ies. I know, I know, not everyone is alike, but at age 35 I’m really happy that my job involves serious adult challenges, and that my s…

> but at age 35 I’m really happy that my job involves serious adult challenges Highly doubt that if you are commenting on a social media platform. What's an "adult" challenge? > and that my success in life isn’t depending on thousands of teenagers pushing a like button. Sure it does. From journalist to software programmers and everyone in between.

>Highly doubt that if you are commenting on a social media platform

Because adults don't use social media platforms? And HN is not exactly Snapchat either...

>Sure it does. From journalist to software programmers and everyone in between.

Most businesses around the world could not care less for "journalists", "software programmers" and "everyone in between". We're not all working on Facebook, Apple, and co, or even on internet businesses.

There are billions of people working in places that at best have some static website, and people just walk in and buy stuff for example. Or B2B, or services, and so on. And for most of these neither their website matters much (if at all), not do they deal with media writing about them (or care).

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#135

Who knew hard work can be hard, this reads less like an actual deep analysis and more like people complaining they need to actually put in work to get paid. >‘invisible’ labour such as interacting with fans is ‘a major contributor to occupational stress. In many cases it can contribute to PTSD’. Are you kidding me? they are not fans they are your "customers" or at least your "consumers" public and customer relations…

> this reads less like an actual deep analysis and more like people complaining they need to actually put in work to get paid.

That is clearly not what they were saying. That is an incredibly callous way of dismissing someone else's problems.

From the article:

> Lees developed a thyroid problem, and began to experience more frequent and persistent stretches of depression.

There is a well-established link between thyroid issues and burnout. See this comment from Amy Hoy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5633063 The deeper takeaway is that burnout is not just someone saying "oh I don't like my job". It is a specific condition with measurable physical effects.

I almost burned out a few years ago. I quit the job I was working in, took a few months off, then looked for a less-demanding freelance job to recover. The thing is, in the "recovery" job, I actually worked about twice as many hours and was about 4x more productive. But it was majorly less stressful - I simply came in to the office in the morning, picked the latest tickets on Trello, worked on them, then went home.

In the previous job, I probably did about 20 hours actual work/week, and spent a lot of time twiddling my thumbs. But the organisation was in total chaos, with projects started and cancelled all over the place. I could go the extra mile on a piece of work and have it completely ignored, then get chewed out publicly for something I'd had no idea I was expected to do. I tried to be proactive and solve these problems, but it was an exercise in futility and frustration.

Burnout is not caused by "working hard", it's caused by a combination of things, usually some form of working hard and failing repeatedly, especially when the failure was caused by factors beyond your control (such as management politics, or in the case of YouTube stars, the all-powerful algorithm). This has been fairly well-researched and documented. Amy Hoy described it as "training your brain to associate hard work with failure", which is pretty succinct.

(For anyone who wants to learn more - burnout is pretty common amongst programmers and startup people - this is a good resource for overcoming some of the cognitive issues involved: https://www.thinkingdirections.com/blog/burnout/).

The Youtubers in the article described their problems clearly and eloquently, it enrages me to hear people callously dismiss them in this way.

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#136
post #97

This article is really relatable. Personal story time. I recently had a mini hit on Reddit where I started a community that's about 2800 people who come to me for marketing tips every day. It's both exhilarating and terrifying. Having a community, making content about my passion, and being able to perform is really all I've ever wanted. On the other hand I'm insanely cognizant of losing it at any time. There is no br…

I think a lot of the concern for upkeep is simply overblown.

I follow several vloggers, bloggers, etc. Once they've built a basic following, they can do whatever, even disappear for weeks or months, and still have most or all of their followers intact and craving for more content.

I know, because me and tons of others, are waiting for new content from some such people who took huge break times off, and when it appears views always shoot through the roof. And I don't see Subscription counts fall of that much either (e.g. to the point that it makes any difference, e.g. going from 200K to 150K or so). It's easier to just ignore a channel that hasn't posted videos for a while, than to actively unsubscribe (besides, not getting posts is no reason to unsubscribe if you'd still like what they can possibly post in the future).

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#137

Who knew hard work can be hard, this reads less like an actual deep analysis and more like people complaining they need to actually put in work to get paid. >‘invisible’ labour such as interacting with fans is ‘a major contributor to occupational stress. In many cases it can contribute to PTSD’. Are you kidding me? they are not fans they are your "customers" or at least your "consumers" public and customer relations…

> this reads less like an actual deep analysis and more like people complaining they need to actually put in work to get paid. That is clearly not what they were saying. That is an incredibly callous way of dismissing someone else's problems. From the article: > Lees developed a thyroid problem, and began to experience more frequent and persistent stretches of depression. There is a well-established link between thyr…

Edit: Amy Hoy did not mention "training your brain to associate hard work with failure", it was this commenter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5630618

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#138
post #8

In my experience the frustrating part about YouTube is when the crowd wants content that you're not interested in making. For instance, I've made a few videos about building clusters from Raspberry Pi's, which I did just for kicks and to have something to play around with. They get more attention than my (imo more interesting) videos about programming or various other electronics topics, to the point that it dwarfs m…

"I also learned very quickly that the YouTube comments section is chaotic and is not a recommended place for someone looking for thoughtful critique on their material." YouTube's comments are some of the absolute worst I've seen on the web. It's interesting that YouTube has made no effective efforts to improve their quality. You'd think the site as a whole could benefit tremendously from quality comments, but apparen…

>YouTube's comments are some of the absolute worst I've seen on the web.

For me it's the exact opposite. YouTube's comment are the absolute freer speech I've seen on the web, warts and all. It's also some of the most touching

Plus, because it starts with videos, which are much more universal than a blog post, it's a meeting point for people of all countries, races, religions, views on life, and so on.

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#139

Who knew hard work can be hard, this reads less like an actual deep analysis and more like people complaining they need to actually put in work to get paid. >‘invisible’ labour such as interacting with fans is ‘a major contributor to occupational stress. In many cases it can contribute to PTSD’. Are you kidding me? they are not fans they are your "customers" or at least your "consumers" public and customer relations…

> PTSD? from what? reading fan mail? even if it contains death threats you can't get PTSD from that there is no trauma

There is a solid kernal of truth here, PTSD generally relies on clear and obvious trauma... That said, CPTSD has lots of nuanced angles, the original quote was "contribute[s] to" PTSD (not "cause"), and I think the required emotional investment to produce content vs horrendous comment content from YouTube commenters has been overlooked.

Particularly on an IT forum: stress stemming from continuous urgency and unending negativity, a la customer support or helpdesk work, is a major problem and a silent killer. Combined with burnout? That's where you get into serious health issues. Chronic stress combined with feelings of helplessness, being overwhelmed, or being attacked cause trauma by themselves. Socially we are terrible at addressing those burdens on our employees, and it stretches into PTSD-ish territory

Reading fan mail? How about rape and death threats? How about invasive comments about how your nipples have been showing more/less with each video? How about abject racism and brutal sexism and blatant trolling about your appearance? That's before we get to unrelenting shit talking about you and your work...

You may very well be right that PTSD isn't always a precise diagnosis of the issue. But if anyone is getting regular death threats based on something important to them over a long period of time, then the nuanced distinctions between life-destroying stress conditions, PTSD, and CPTSD are something they're gonna spend some time discussing with their therapist. That's how our brains work.

Re: YouTube stars heading for burnout

#140
I've unwittingly enjoyed Matt Lee's content on 'Shut Up and Sit Down', a board game review channel. I've always found him, and his colleagues, really good at what they do and find it professional.

I didn't know about Matt's background on Youtube, but a bit of Googling and I found he's had a really rough ride. As well as the stress and health problems others have mentioned, his wife also developed cancer a few years ago and was very close to dying.

All the while he still manages to produce witty, engaging content for a fickle audience. Honestly, the guy deserves a bit more respect for his craft than the comments in this thread are giving.

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