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To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

nytimes.com

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Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#81

Post by amluto »

cdoxsey wrote: post #72

> Libraries don’t just provide free access to books and other cultural materials, they also offer things like companionship for older adults, de facto child care for busy parents, language instruction for immigrants and welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. This is a description of the proper role of the church in civil society and a public library is a poor substitute. The church usher…

> This is a description of the proper role of the church in civil society and a public library is a poor substitute.

It may well be a description of a role that a church should play for those who believe in its religion. But who plays that role for everyone else?

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#82

Post by weichi »

numbsafari wrote: post #77
cdoxsey wrote: post #72

> Libraries don’t just provide free access to books and other cultural materials, they also offer things like companionship for older adults, de facto child care for busy parents, language instruction for immigrants and welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. This is a description of the proper role of the church in civil society and a public library is a poor substitute. The church usher…

I always assumed this is what TED aspires to be... the Quaker / Unitarian Universalist / Reform Synagogue of North American intellectual and wealthy elites.

Unless I am very badly misunderstanding TED, it provides none of the things that churches provide for their members. Some of these things are described succinctly but clearly in the post you are responding too. Could you expand on this?

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#83

Post by Izkata »

barking wrote: post #51
keithpeter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Librarians are pretty brutal about shelf space and 'discards' are ruthless and based on readership as you noticed. In UK most public libraries will offer to get a book in on the 'inter-library loan' system - there is usually a charge. University libraries ( https://copac.jisc.ac.uk/ ) are (mostly) accessible through this system. The other strategy would be to try to increase readership of philosophy books perhaps sta…

It's years since I was in a library, the one where I lived was getting worse for a while. The stock of books was decreasing and the staff were resorting to displaying them in a manner that made this less obvious such as some books being displayed face out to take up more space. Where I live now, I'm twenty miles from the nearest, not very good library, and never go there.

Yeah, the one I grew up with (and worked at in 2005), I revisited around 2010 and it kinda hurt to see just how much they'd gotten rid of. Not only had a large number of shelves been removed for a new bank of computers, the remaining ones were relatively bare like you describe. Probably only had around half the number of books it used to, and this was after they'd built an annex and tripled in size in the late 90s.

Wasn't long after that I moved away and haven't had an urge to go back to any library.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#84

Post by stanleydrew »

kenneth wrote: post #63

> [Libraries provide] welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. And isn't this precisely why normal people don't use libraries anymore? Because they've become de facto homeless shelters with unsavory guests who frequently smell awful or use computers for watching porn. I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests.

I'm a pretty normal person living in San Francisco and I work pretty regularly from the public library in my neighborhood. The free WiFi is nice and the only issue I've ever had is kids coming in to watch YouTube videos after school which is really just a minor annoyance.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#86

Post by jumelles »

ScottAS wrote: post #29

The concept of “the library” is one that holds deep emotional attachment for many people. The nostalgia of book smells, the exhibitionism of reading “cool” physical books in public, the idea of being physically connected to “the community”. The core function of a library, storing physical books, makes little sense anymore. Digital books are far superior in cost and functionality. But those emotionally attached will c…

> Digital books are far superior in cost and functionality.

Paper books can't be deleted, don't need power, and have no DRM. Once you get beyond just text and start including diagrams, illustrations, or photos, e-ink doesn't hold up.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#87

Post by Alex3917 »

3rdAccount wrote: post #59
philipps wrote: post #41

I can’t say enough good things about public libraries. At the MIT Media Lab we started an innovation exchange with US libraries to co-develop new STEAM education programs together (tinkering with electronics, building a “food computer”, using data to tell stories...). We found that libraries are wonderful collaborators. They are also one of the last places where people from all walks of life encounter each other in a…

Sigh...not a big fan of "STEAM" as opposed to "STEM". STEM exists because science, technology, engineering, and math don't get the focus they need in the standard US education system. There is also the arts of music, and drawing/painting/crafts, P.E., History, Literature that are still important, but take the focus away. If you say...well STEM is important, but let's not forget art, pretty soon you'll say well we als…

> STEM exists because science, technology, engineering, and math don't get the focus they need in the standard US education system.

Pretty much every HS kid in America is required to take at least 3 full years of math and science if not 4. How exactly are they not getting the focus over art? Schools are cutting art programs left and right in order to allocate more resources toward things that get covered on standardized tests.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#88

Post by omegaworks »

kenneth wrote: post #63

> [Libraries provide] welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. And isn't this precisely why normal people don't use libraries anymore? Because they've become de facto homeless shelters with unsavory guests who frequently smell awful or use computers for watching porn. I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests.

>I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests.

Perhaps you should reflect upon the nature of your city and the massive changes it is undergoing, with a particular focus upon on the distribution of resources like shelter, before taking your animus out on the public library system. That the libraries have taken on this role serves as an example of the failures elsewhere in your civic society.

If who you consider "normal" people don't use libraries, consider what that means about what has been normalized.

Your local public library can help you find resources to get you started.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#89

Post by noxToken »

j9461701 wrote: post #80
cdoxsey wrote: post #72

> Libraries don’t just provide free access to books and other cultural materials, they also offer things like companionship for older adults, de facto child care for busy parents, language instruction for immigrants and welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. This is a description of the proper role of the church in civil society and a public library is a poor substitute. The church usher…

Churches encourage complacency (all of life is God's plan), many fought hard against abortion, contraception, and women's rights/equality, and the insular tribalism such places encourage has enabled a lot of truly ugly behavior to be covered up due to in-group loyalty (see the Catholic church's sex abuse scandal for an example). Ultimately secularization was a necessary step in the evolution of society, as it's diffi…

ever been to an Episcopalian service? I've been to a few dozen at a few different churches in a few different states. They are a split from Catholicism, so the rituals during service can seem familiar. However, the sermon feels like your father or grandfather (and some cases mother or grandmother) reassuring you for the week, and telling you to be your best self. It's about as liberal as mainstream Western religion gets.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#90

Post by tomcam »

kenneth wrote: post #63

> [Libraries provide] welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. And isn't this precisely why normal people don't use libraries anymore? Because they've become de facto homeless shelters with unsavory guests who frequently smell awful or use computers for watching porn. I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests.

That is correct. Another, minor problem for a library lover like me is that libraries have been falling all over themselves to get rid of books.
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