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Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

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Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#11

Post by eganist »

mrfusion wrote: post #8
eganist wrote: post #3

Prior discussions (not the same link) on HN, posted for reference because they touch on the past research that was previously posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17446016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094 (this is the parent link for the antiviral risk reduction study -- a good read, comments and source article) There's a decent amount of reading…

You seem really knowledgeable about this stuff. I’d be curious what diet you’d recommend for a two copy apoe4?

I don't know if I've ever followed specific dietary recommendations, but a quick Google Scholar search seems to find multiple independent conclusions supporting unsaturated fatty acids. Easiest way to hit that would be to pursue a Mediterranean diet, and also possibly more fish/seafood (https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-...).

"Do as I say, not as I do." My diet is awful mostly because food is my vice.

Amelius replied to you with possible recommendations for reducing HSV risk in a dietary manner. I'll take a read too.

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#12

Post by mrfusion »

eganist wrote: post #9
mrfusion wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for all the info! Would you mind expanding in the valacyclovir lifetime treatment? What is that? If you never notice any active infections then you think you’re pretty safe?

Not a doctor; can't give you medical advice. Just giving deductions I'm making based on current research which could all play out to be very, very wrong. Valacyclovir is brand-named Valtrex. Basically, if you're ever diagnosed with herpes of any variant, you should ask your doctor about what to expect if you go on Valacyclovir to ward off recurring outbreaks. If those side effects don't sound disagreeable to you v. t…

Thanks. What’s your take on this article:

https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Efficac...

Maybe you should get this vaccine instead of valtrex? Or both?

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#14

Post by eganist »

mrfusion wrote: post #12
eganist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a doctor; can't give you medical advice. Just giving deductions I'm making based on current research which could all play out to be very, very wrong. Valacyclovir is brand-named Valtrex. Basically, if you're ever diagnosed with herpes of any variant, you should ask your doctor about what to expect if you go on Valacyclovir to ward off recurring outbreaks. If those side effects don't sound disagreeable to you v. t…

Thanks. What’s your take on this article: https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Efficac... Maybe you should get this vaccine instead of valtrex? Or both?

I've got the former. I'd personally still also do the latter. Consider me paranoid, but if diagnosed, I'm sold on the side effects of a lifetime of valacyclovir being far less inconvenient than a descent into oblivion.

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#15

Post by hwillis »

maxerickson wrote: post #7
mabbo wrote: post #2

Alzheimer's is the cruelest of illnesses and the loved ones of the victims suffer as much as the victims. The allure of this theory, in my view, is that if you could somehow turn this into a treatment, people would give you whatever money you demanded for it. You want $200,000? We'll find it, somehow, just make Mom remember who I am, please.

The amusing thing about your "cynicism" here is that $200,000 would be a substantial savings compared to what happens now, never mind the huge value an effective treatment would provide. In the US, the government (and thus society at large) bears much of the cost: http://act.alz.org/site/DocServer/2012_Costs_Fact_Sheet_vers...

4-5 years of a nursing home vs cured alzheimer's isn't even a hard decision

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#16

Post by chimeracoder »

graeme wrote: post #4
eganist wrote: post #3

Prior discussions (not the same link) on HN, posted for reference because they touch on the past research that was previously posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17446016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094 (this is the parent link for the antiviral risk reduction study -- a good read, comments and source article) There's a decent amount of reading…

How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of infections are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it.

> How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of infections are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it.

That's true. There's a blood test you can do, though.

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#17

Post by hwillis »

mrfusion wrote: post #13

So does this throw the type three diabetes theory out the window?

Nothing is out the window- Alzheimers is still extremely mysterious. There are fungal, infectious, prion, plaque, vascular, diabetes etc. etc. etc. Theories that are all remarkably reasonable. The only thing thats really changed recently is that the most recent frontrunning treatment, an amyloid-related drug, didnt help.

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#18

Post by faitswulff »

eganist wrote: post #3

Prior discussions (not the same link) on HN, posted for reference because they touch on the past research that was previously posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17446016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094 (this is the parent link for the antiviral risk reduction study -- a good read, comments and source article) There's a decent amount of reading…

> I can't find it now, but there's also a past HN discussion about a week prior to the HSV/HHV causative study that points to the function of beta-amyloid as potentially to tangle and disable Herpes in the brain

I believe this is the discussion you were thinking of?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094#17540106

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#19

Post by reasonattlm »

Microbial theories of Alzheimer's don't change the amyloid cascade hypothesis picture - that the disease begins with high levels of amyloid aggregates, then proceeds to high levels of tau aggregates enabled by the amyloid, and it is the tau that causes the real harm. That persistent infections raise amyloid production - because that amyloid is a feature of the innate immune system - is a way to try to answer the question of why only some people have raised levels of amyloid. If you can point to chronic infections that are present in 10% or 20% or 30% of the population (but not much more than that), such as some herpesviruses, this sounds plausible.

The other problem is that there are people with high levels of of amyloid who don't get Alzheimer's, so you need other factors as well. That may be obesity / metabolic dysfunction, hence the view of Alzheimer's informed by metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin.

The further challenge is that chronic inflammation in immune aging is clearly an important factor, as is vascular aging. A third of Alzheimer's patients also have some degree of vascular dementia, and the decline in blood flow and capillary networks are clearly significant in neurodegeneration considered as a whole.

Another point to consider is that a competing hypothesis for the microbial increase in amyloid levels is the progressive age-related failure of cerebrospinal fluid drainage to remove buildup of aggregates as it does in youth. This has just as compelling a set of supporting evidence at the present time.

Alzheimer's is a condition with many significant contributing causes. The amyloid cascade (with the various reasons as to why there might be more amyloid), immune aging, vascular aging. All the causes may be real, and about as important as one another. It is a condition that results from many discrete items, most of which may have to be addressed to produce significant gains in the patient population.

Re: Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest

#20

Post by mariuolo »

mabbo wrote: post #2

Alzheimer's is the cruelest of illnesses and the loved ones of the victims suffer as much as the victims. The allure of this theory, in my view, is that if you could somehow turn this into a treatment, people would give you whatever money you demanded for it. You want $200,000? We'll find it, somehow, just make Mom remember who I am, please.

> The allure of this theory, in my view, is that if you could somehow turn this into a treatment, people would give you whatever money you demanded for it. You want $200,000? We'll find it, somehow, just make Mom remember who I am, please.

Experts please correct me if I'm wrong, but even if this theory were to be proven true, how could it help anyone once the damage is done?

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