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To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

nytimes.com

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Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#21

Post by kasey_junk »

zanba38 wrote: post #12
detaro wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding patrons from being tracked/potentially in the future prosecuted for their reading is professional ethics for librarians, pretty much regardless of political alignment.

That's interesting and new to me, as I'm not American. Does the American government track or prosecute people for their reading habits in libraries? Is it to be expected then that librarians are aligned to the political left?

As with all professions you'll find individual librarians that have political positions all over the board.

The biggest professional organization for them in the USA (the ALA) is not officially politically aligned, but some of their core positions, notably privacy, intellectual freedom and anti-censorship have of late have come to be seen as politically left and in the States especially more aligned with the Democratic party.

Demographically librarians in the United States do lean liberal but I don't know that they do at any higher rates than other educated people.

Finally, this is not just an American thing. The IFLA has very similar positions on privacy, intellectual freedom and censorship and monitors those positions around their world.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#22

Post by the-red-herring »

mynameishere wrote: post #17
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you expect a librarian – who is, after all, not a trained security guard – to do besides simply call the police? And in so many of the examples that I see people complain about, it would seem that the disruption by homeless people or drug users is only noticed after it has taken place (e.g. they trash the toilets or leave needles or paraphenalia behind).

What an odd "problem". I would expect the librarian to call the police. And if there was a "trained security guard" on the premises I would expect him to also call the police. (That's why we have police.)

Well, you can't rely on police for everything. I mean, they aren't your personal dobermen.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#23

Post by the-red-herring »

kaybe wrote: post #13
zanba38 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting and new to me, as I'm not American. Does the American government track or prosecute people for their reading habits in libraries? Is it to be expected then that librarians are aligned to the political left?

Since 2001 (at least) the law enforcement is supposed to have access to library records. The legal basis keeps changing, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

[flagged]

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#24

Post by the-red-herring »

tomjen3 wrote: post #18
zanba38 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting and new to me, as I'm not American. Does the American government track or prosecute people for their reading habits in libraries? Is it to be expected then that librarians are aligned to the political left?

You wouldn't, in general, be able to ban books in the US, but if it was possible to profile people based on their library records, say somebody read Das Capital, The Anarchist Cookbook and a few similar books like that and you are the police searching for an anarchist bomber?

TomJen, where in the States do you live?

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#25

Post by the_clarence »

housingpost wrote: post #2

I love the idea of libraries, but where I live most of them are almost as bad as public transportation. People fighting, being loud, people on drugs asking for money, so it's difficult to get comfortable to sit and read. Sadly you have to go to the suburbs to get a quiet library where you don't get hassled. Amazon certainly isn't the solution, but neither is having libraries be the daytime homeless shelter.

It really depends on the country, in some they are homeless shelters, in others they are amazing places to spend your time

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#26

Post by sureaboutthis »

I visit the library often. Two libraries in fact as I used to live in two counties and each had their own and now both share resources. They give me information on things I would not know because I didn't want to buy a book I was worried wasn't what I was looking for. It helped me learn about FreeBSD which helped me start a business I've been running for 15 years now along with the programming languages. Libraries helped me cook and build things for my home.

I own most of those books I borrowed from the library now and they still sit on my bookshelf next to me.

And I'm pretty darned good at all that.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#28

Post by agumonkey »

housingpost wrote: post #2

I love the idea of libraries, but where I live most of them are almost as bad as public transportation. People fighting, being loud, people on drugs asking for money, so it's difficult to get comfortable to sit and read. Sadly you have to go to the suburbs to get a quiet library where you don't get hassled. Amazon certainly isn't the solution, but neither is having libraries be the daytime homeless shelter.

I wonder if there are tricks to limit these. Like putting libraries on the third floor without elevators.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#29

Post by ScottAS »

The concept of “the library” is one that holds deep emotional attachment for many people. The nostalgia of book smells, the exhibitionism of reading “cool” physical books in public, the idea of being physically connected to “the community”.

The core function of a library, storing physical books, makes little sense anymore. Digital books are far superior in cost and functionality. But those emotionally attached will claim “they’re not the same”.

Our province in Canada has a population of 500,000 and has over 100 libraries. Each of those libraries needs to carry multiple copies of important literature. Many of these libraries go unused. It’s a big waste of money yet people can’t move on because of emotional attachment and emotional reasoning.

I do believe in the reinvisioning of libraries as a more digital space, a place to work, and a place for the public to learn.

But let’s stop the emotional reasoning and use pure logic. “Civil society” is more alive than ever, on the internet.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#30

Post by arandr0x »

ScottAS wrote: post #29

The concept of “the library” is one that holds deep emotional attachment for many people. The nostalgia of book smells, the exhibitionism of reading “cool” physical books in public, the idea of being physically connected to “the community”. The core function of a library, storing physical books, makes little sense anymore. Digital books are far superior in cost and functionality. But those emotionally attached will c…

I understand the argument and I agree that digital books are the future, however, they are so inferior in discoverability that if my library ever moves all-digital I will replace it with one of my 10 local used bookstores. I need to browse books to find some I like and am not interested in letting algorithms or Internet echo chambers do so for me.

My own library also has copies of e.g. sheet music... I agree that those could be digital but it's more practical to stick a giant piece of paper on my keyboard vs a tablet (would be afraid the tablet could fall, also don't own a tablet). And the library is often one of few places these days that young children see physical books in large numbers... won't it be bad for their eyes to do all that reading digitally?

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