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Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

blog.joda.org

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Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#31

Post by pjmlp »

jeswin wrote: post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

Plenty of JVM vendors are happily selling their own versions, playing by the rules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#...

Google had the option to buy Sun after helping to their downfall, they have chosen not to spend the money to own Java. Now they get to spend on lawyers instead.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#34

Post by ttty »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #21
narrator wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked some in Typescript and I like it. In fact, it looks like it's going to be the next great enterprise language that's not Java or .Net. Am I delusional?

I like it compared to javascript, but I think it would be crazy to use it for backend work. I think making typescript happy probably saved me more time than it cost, but it's pretty janky, even compared to similar type systems like mypy. The ability to lie about types caused me quite a bit of confusion, with some libraries, especially immutable.js. Next time I want to develop a frontend system, I think I'll try reaso…

It's pretty cool actually. I used node because I can do client side prediction and server side validation with the same code. Note having client and server side in TS, means that I get completion for API calls from client to server side.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#35

Post by kam »

djsumdog wrote: post #11

So would the Docker OpenJDK containers be equivalent to your distros OpenJDK build? https://hub.docker.com/_/openjdk/ I assume so since they're maintained by the Docker community in the same way Debain or Ubuntu may maintain their package trees.

These Docker images use the Debian or Alpine OpenJDK packages.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#36

Post by jeswin »

pjmlp wrote: post #31
jeswin wrote: post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

Plenty of JVM vendors are happily selling their own versions, playing by the rules. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#... Google had the option to buy Sun after helping to their downfall, they have chosen not to spend the money to own Java. Now they get to spend on lawyers instead.

I guess what I'm saying is that we should dump a non-free platform ("non-free", as you seem to agree) for an alternative that offers freedom.

People have certainly learnt their lessons that the stewards cannot be trusted - they could get bought out as with Sun or their management could change any time. How users rejected Facebook's React License speaks of better awareness on these issues and is welcome.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#37

Post by pjmlp »

jeswin wrote: post #36
pjmlp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of JVM vendors are happily selling their own versions, playing by the rules. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#... Google had the option to buy Sun after helping to their downfall, they have chosen not to spend the money to own Java. Now they get to spend on lawyers instead.

I guess what I'm saying is that we should dump a non-free platform ("non-free", as you seem to agree) for an alternative that offers freedom. People have certainly learnt their lessons that the stewards cannot be trusted - they could get bought out as with Sun or their management could change any time. How users rejected Facebook's React License speaks of better awareness on these issues and is welcome.

Looking at the tools and libraries I get to use with Java, .NET, OS X/iOS, Android, Qt and the ones I get with the free alternatives, I rather stay with the former.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#38

Post by dragonwriter »

jeswin wrote: post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

> After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able),

Copyrightable.

> it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP.

That's not at all clear. After the third time Oracle v. Google gets ruled on by the trial court, it will undoubtedly be appealed to the Federal Circuit again. Whatever happens there, it is likely at least Google (given how the Federal Circuit has constrained what must happen at the District Court in the prior Appeal) and possibly Oracle will attempt an appeal to the Supreme Court. After that (whether the Supreme Court hears the case or not, but especially if they do), then what the law is in this area may be clear. Until then, all that is clear is what the Federal Circuit’s view of Ninth Circuit case law is, which as precedent is binding on no other court (any court bound by Ninth Circuit case law is bound by the actual case law of the Circuit, not the Federal Circuit’s interpretation of it) and, for litigants, has predictive power only for cases with patent claims that also raise similar copyright issues, and which arise out of districts in the Ninth Circuit.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#39

Post by fulafel »

jeswin wrote: post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

Pick Clojure, Scala or JRuby instead of Java if you need to start off on the JVM, to hedge against this risk.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#40

Post by ssijak »

chaostheory wrote: post #7
jeswin wrote: post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

TypeScript ( https://www.typescriptlang.org/ ) is a good starting point. If you use nestjs ( http://nestjs.com/ ), it has dependency injection as well. Pairs with Angular nicely.

How can you compare nodejs runtime and java runtime? When you take into account traditional Java uses
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