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Sperm Count Zero

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Re: Sperm Count Zero

#51
post #35
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This submission was made by a 5-year HN user with 14000 karma. Although I don't know if you've been more active with a different handle, which is certainly very possible, the account whose submission you're complaining about has been active 27 times as long as yours and has 91 times as much karma as yours... suggesting a history of reasonably good-faith contribution to HN. Edit: it's true that his submissions aren't…

It doesn't matter how much karma someone has. A repost is a repost, and it's ok to point it out.

I took this as somehow blaming GQ itself. (I don't mind people pointing out reposts.)

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#52
post #4

I had heard that sperm counts are dropping. What was news to me was that the decline is continuing, even accelerating, and also the concomitant drop in testosterone levels, starting even in utero. The bit about AGD was also pretty crazy — followed by the bit about men becoming less male . Some fear-mongering there no doubt, but a topic which in this era is more likely to be met with scoffs of “good riddance” rather t…

likely to be met with scoffs of “good riddance” My first thought was that this may also cast light on the rise of the trans rights movement. If men are becoming less male, surely this relates to so many people saying "I'm really a woman trapped in a man's body." or vice versa. This may also help explain why trans people are so often met with open hostility as "freaks" etc. No, I am not defending their mistreatment. B…

> I'm a fairly traditionally feminine woman and spent a couple of decades as a homemaker and full-time mom. I am routinely met with open hostility from self proclaimed trans activists, feminists, etc.

> I personally like "manly men" and that's also not a PC thing to admit to. So I will suggest it isn't just men the world is saying "good riddance" to. It's also women in some sense.

I think, in this context, we need better and likely newer vocabulary. I don't believe that others would despise you or any other woman or man or an intersex person or someone in transition for liking certain characteristics (physical and/or behavioral) traditionally and historically associated with men.

The issue seems to be — while we're untangling all the discrimination, stereotyping and prejudices — that the current and older terms (like "manly man") reek of all these negative things that are being questioned (where newer ways are being sought to deal with). The impact of such broad terms is wider than what people may generally think of.

To make a comparison (which may be taken differently by different people), it's like using the "N" word and assuming that even a neutral or seemingly positive reference should be accepted by others.

Language is changing all the time and adapting to the times. In this particular case, I believe we should break down what something like "manly man" means into constituent parts and try to use decoupled (from the original term), yet concise and non-triggering, ways of expressing the same. It may not be easy. It may sound weird at first. But it's something we need as a society.

Lest this be dismissed as "oh, we just need new words to fix the world", I'd like to reiterate that the basis is to allow thoughts to change.

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

likely to be met with scoffs of “good riddance” My first thought was that this may also cast light on the rise of the trans rights movement. If men are becoming less male, surely this relates to so many people saying "I'm really a woman trapped in a man's body." or vice versa. This may also help explain why trans people are so often met with open hostility as "freaks" etc. No, I am not defending their mistreatment. B…

> I'm a fairly traditionally feminine woman and spent a couple of decades as a homemaker and full-time mom. I am routinely met with open hostility from self proclaimed trans activists, feminists, etc. > I personally like "manly men" and that's also not a PC thing to admit to. So I will suggest it isn't just men the world is saying "good riddance" to. It's also women in some sense. I think, in this context, we need be…

FWIW, after posting, I did contemplate adding:

Contrary to popular opinion, manly man and misogynistic asshole aren't actually synonyms.

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#54

In mammals generally testosterone levels and photoperiod are very closely linked. It would be surprising if our increasing use (abuse) or artificial light didn't sharply drop our testosterone levels.

Testosterone also drops from high consumption of animal products.

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a topic which in this era is more likely to be met with scoffs of “good riddance” rather than alarm bells. I'm not sure about that. The Internet "manosphere" (for lack of a better term; consider it the all-encompassing phrase for both harmless and not-so-harmless subcultures like weightlifting, PUA, redpillers, the alt-right, etc.) seems more obsessed with masculinity than anyone I can recall seeing in previous dec…

It’s exactly those harmless and not-so-harmless subcultures obsessed with [toxic] masculinity who are the fringe groups which somehow (almost by osmosis) seem to corrupt this fairly shocking scientific line of inquiry.

It is unfortunate that this pretty serious issue is going to be somewhat "guilty by association", but I don't think it will get so bad that no one's going to care about it. Men are just, well, too invested in this stuff. I just wanted to allay concerns that nobody's going to care because it would be too "un-PC".

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a fairly traditionally feminine woman and spent a couple of decades as a homemaker and full-time mom. I am routinely met with open hostility from self proclaimed trans activists, feminists, etc. > I personally like "manly men" and that's also not a PC thing to admit to. So I will suggest it isn't just men the world is saying "good riddance" to. It's also women in some sense. I think, in this context, we need be…

FWIW, after posting, I did contemplate adding: Contrary to popular opinion, manly man and misogynistic asshole aren't actually synonyms.

I didn't even think of these two terms together in this context and I don't think of those as synonyms, and my usual thoughts in this case are about the characteristics and attributes that are used to discriminate against those who don't seem to be "manly men" or those who seem to be "manly men", while society (or parents or others) wants them to be and fulfill what they (the others) think is their traditional role. Tradition is not set in stone. Nothing is. The clash is sometimes with certain behaviors, but it's also many a times with prejudiced associations that discriminate and affect others.

P.S.: I also believe that short pieces of written words and sentences can be misinterpreted online, and probably malice attribute to where there is none.

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, after posting, I did contemplate adding: Contrary to popular opinion, manly man and misogynistic asshole aren't actually synonyms.

I didn't even think of these two terms together in this context and I don't think of those as synonyms, and my usual thoughts in this case are about the characteristics and attributes that are used to discriminate against those who don't seem to be "manly men" or those who seem to be "manly men", while society (or parents or others) wants them to be and fulfill what they (the others) think is their traditional role.…

I was agreeing with you. I am only saying so because my impression is that is not your takeaway here.

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#59

Lack of exercise, poor diet, extremely feminine culture, absolute taboo of violence, endocrine disruptors.

> extremely feminine culture What's that meant to mean?

Perhaps feminine isn't the right word, perhaps what I mean is a devaluation of masculine traits. In my opinion we live in a time of extreme obedience to law, taboo and shaming of physical violence (with instead an emphasis on social shaming via television/media), and a general fear of social confrontation and disagreement. Our focus instead is on acceptance of absolutely everyone and everything.

Re: Sperm Count Zero

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> extremely feminine culture What's that meant to mean?

Perhaps feminine isn't the right word, perhaps what I mean is a devaluation of masculine traits. In my opinion we live in a time of extreme obedience to law, taboo and shaming of physical violence (with instead an emphasis on social shaming via television/media), and a general fear of social confrontation and disagreement. Our focus instead is on acceptance of absolutely everyone and everything.

You'd like to see more physical violence in the world? Or that it be less taboo, less shameful? Exactly which physical violence are you talking about?
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