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Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

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11–20 of 136 posts

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#12
post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

TypeScript ( https://www.typescriptlang.org/ ) is a good starting point. If you use nestjs ( http://nestjs.com/ ), it has dependency injection as well. Pairs with Angular nicely.

[deleted]

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#13

But what about supporr for the JRE? Please help a sad IT admin understand what's gonna happen.

Oh, just the usual near-monthly (if not daily) death march of ever-increasing version numbers, just like Chrome and Firefox. And Windows Update. And OS X, And iOS. And Ubuntu. And so on, and so on, and so on...

In general I'm glad we have rapidly increasing version numbers for Chrome, Firefox and even Edge. If you had lived through the IE6 days, this would be something to appreciate.

I'm how sure how I feel about it with the JRE. I have old open source apps on Scala 2.11/SBT 0.13 that are already experience dependency rot. :-/ It's going to be more difficult too since deprecated stuff is finally getting removed from Java.

I'm curious to see where we'll be a few years from now.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#14

Why would a company pay for "commercial support" of OpenJDK from IBM? I have used Java for 15 years and I don't know what "support" for a JDK would mean.

Some orgs insist on having someone to sue (or at least to blame) when things go wrong.

Government and government-funded orgs practically insist on it.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#15

Why would a company pay for "commercial support" of OpenJDK from IBM? I have used Java for 15 years and I don't know what "support" for a JDK would mean.

Security updates after EoL. Oracle does/did this with Java 6. Support in diagnosing problems and getting fixes escalated. As others have said, a corporate requirement to have a throat to throttle

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are stretching limits of java, then you would need support because that knowledge base isn't available easily. I worked for a company that had performance engineers from sun on site helping us with performance issues.

Or because your company has a policy of not putting anything in production without a signed license and/or current support contract. (See e.g. SQLite which is public-domain but if you want a commercial license anyway they'll sell you one. They offer non-FOSS extensions now but they sold commercial licenses before that.)

They are now using openJDK and modifying the source code themselves, so no, that's not the policy.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#17
post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

TypeScript ( https://www.typescriptlang.org/ ) is a good starting point. If you use nestjs ( http://nestjs.com/ ), it has dependency injection as well. Pairs with Angular nicely.

I've worked some in Typescript and I like it. In fact, it looks like it's going to be the next great enterprise language that's not Java or .Net. Am I delusional?

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#19
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are stretching limits of java, then you would need support because that knowledge base isn't available easily. I worked for a company that had performance engineers from sun on site helping us with performance issues.

Or because your company has a policy of not putting anything in production without a signed license and/or current support contract. (See e.g. SQLite which is public-domain but if you want a commercial license anyway they'll sell you one. They offer non-FOSS extensions now but they sold commercial licenses before that.)

Yup. My company has a license/support contract for Spring Boot (among many many other things).

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#20
post #9
post #6

Actually, time to look beyond the whole Java ecosystem. After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so. .Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardiza…

it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. That's a pretty extreme interpretation. Most people aren't trying to ship Java-compatible runtimes, as Google did,

I think it's a reasonable interpretation and I agree with GP. APIs used to be seen as fair use and a way to compete, in the similar way to how IBM-compatibles are seen. However, when it became clear to Oracle that there is money to be had, they changed the very definition of copyright to get their fill. What's to say they wont mutate some other aspect of IP law in the future just to make you liable like they did with google?

If you're big enough, they will come after you. I think it's perfectly rational - and i'd argue smart - to cut them off early before it's too late.

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