Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#61

Post by giggidygig » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 5:34 AM UTC

I work for a large multinational.

I'm based in Australia, while i regularly work with teams from the US.

I've found my US counterparts are extremely bad at using their time efficiently and productively, even though, they are intelligent, knowledgeable and easy going (hands down, some of the best problem solvers i've ever worked with).

I was asked to work late once (due to time differences), and they were shocked when i said "i'm only available during working hours". They took it as a slight, or that i was being rude. I was even called "lazy".

It wasn't until i had an "offline" conversation with some of them that we both got the opportunity to discuss each others points of views.

My US counterparts admitted that one of their main reasons for not saying "no", was Health Care, or the risk of losing health care if you lost your job.

I think this (no fault to my US colleagues, i would probably feel/think the same way), results in bad work practices being perpetuated, resulting in unnecessary work hours, or, at least the perception that its required in order for you to be seen to be "doing a good job".

There's working longer when there's actual work that needs doing, but then there is working longer because your being held hostage to a job because your petrified of getting sick without one.

Case in point, one of my US colleagues was working 2 days after having heart bypass surgery. TWO DAYS!!!!

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#62

Post by EliRivers » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 9:26 AM UTC

somethingsimple wrote: post #53

EliRivers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may last a couple years being the odd one out doing strictly 40h a week, but performance review is going to catch up with you at some point. That doesn't sound like a performance review. It sounds like a "are you staying late in the office" review. If the way to get ahead isn't to be good, but to just stay late, is it really worth it? All those extra hours of your life, sitting at a desk, wishing you could go hom…

It’s not about perception. I have to stay late because the work itself is insane. Crazy deadlines, dependency on other people/teams, that sort of thing.

I understand the evidence indicates that with long-term excessive long hours, performance is worse. You could be the outlier, able to work efficiently after ten to twelve hours, but I understand the probabilities are against this and that actually it is about perception; that the person in charge of saying how good you are at your job is effectively incompetent and can only measure time in office.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#63

Post by somethingsimple » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 11:00 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #62

somethingsimple wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about perception. I have to stay late because the work itself is insane. Crazy deadlines, dependency on other people/teams, that sort of thing.

I understand the evidence indicates that with long-term excessive long hours, performance is worse. You could be the outlier, able to work efficiently after ten to twelve hours, but I understand the probabilities are against this and that actually it is about perception; that the person in charge of saying how good you are at your job is effectively incompetent and can only measure time in office.

I don’t disagree. But when your deadline is often tomorrow, what can you do?

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#64

Post by firestri » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 12:00 AM UTC

somethingsimple wrote: post #63

EliRivers wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the evidence indicates that with long-term excessive long hours, performance is worse. You could be the outlier, able to work efficiently after ten to twelve hours, but I understand the probabilities are against this and that actually it is about perception; that the person in charge of saying how good you are at your job is effectively incompetent and can only measure time in office.

I don’t disagree. But when your deadline is often tomorrow , what can you do?

You can push back or negotiate the deadline. In my short career, I found that most deadlines are BS. They're just there because someone somewhere made the arbitrary decision that it needs to be delivered by then. There is no reason behind it.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#65

Post by rpvnwnkl » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

firestri wrote: post #48

rpvnwnkl wrote: post #10

Why 40 hrs? Try 24-32 and you might find the pace suits you better. This might work for a small org that needs a tech person but can’t support a FT tech person. Ideally you’ll be matching your needs/wants with an employer’s needs/wants. So be more aggressive in searching for the right situation, and you might not end up needing to hurn so many bridges. Also, evaluate why you desire to leave. Is it boredom? Difficulti…

> Why 40 hrs? Try 24-32 and you might find the pace suits you better. This might work for a small org that needs a tech person but can’t support a FT tech person. How do you find these? I've looked for PT work and everywhere wants FT employees or nothing because they say the marginal cost to them between PT and FT isn't much more (admin, training, office space and health insurance costs are pretty much fixed regardle…

I haven’t found them, but it’s not a reason not to look or, even better, ask. I believe that if people asked for roles like these, they would start to be offered.

We are just too stuck in the 40hr work week tradition right now. We should really be looking at our goals and output, not the number of hours per day we’ll commit to working. But that’s a tall order to change. And a lot of people would fail inder this setup because they are not goal-oriented, they just show up, take directions, and go home.

The alternative is as others are suggesting, have no employer, set an income goal or quality of life goal, and adjust your output to meet it. Unfortunately you cant just make money appear by writing code, so part of your goal/output config will involve finding a market for your output.

If this is too much work I would just do what you’re doing until people wont hire you any longer. I expect there will still be someone who will hire you ;)

Really what you’re feeling seems really normal and I suspect most people feel it. Working forty hours for the vast majority of employers is a poor way to experience “life”. You have a skill set that lets you stop and start as you wish to; most people in the world don’t have that luxury.

If I were you I would look into becoming financially independent as quickly as possible, so you can leave this grind and explore life on your own terms. The market is so strong right now that you should take advantage of it. It might not last! If your motivations for working changed, you might also find you can stick around a little longer.