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YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

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171–180 of 272 posts

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, rather than being a deliberate choice of Google, it's simply an emergent phenomenon of a system Google expressly designed to manipulate people? How is it not a hundred times more terrifying than the conspiracy theory, that google chooses to keep such a system online?

Oh, it's far more terrifying that the natural result of being good at feeding people things that you can determine that they will respond well to is that you will progressively feed them more extreme content, because tragedy of the commons is much scarier than mustache twirling villains.

At the point when you recognize this and then choose to proceed apace, you become a “mustache twirling villain.” YouTube crossed that threshold a long, long time ago.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#172
post #64
post #23

This was addressed more broadly in "We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads" by Zeynep Tufekci on TED. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15891014 She remarked that Youtube's recommendation system invariably pushes people towards more extreme views on anything , not just politics. Interested in vegetarianism? Here's something about veganism. She has a hypothesis it works this way because the goal…

> what does it say about us humans that we fall for progressively more extreme stuff? Perhaps that few people actually hold balanced views and nowadays a compromise is looked down upon and a mark of a weak character? I was thinking about this recently. I doubt that it’s primarily an inability to compromise (though that exists when the politics are tied to tribal sense of identity), but more that each of our personal…

I doubt that the general mass of people with "extreme" political beliefs do so out of thinking that "their side" is better. It is that some positions are so fundamentally indefensible for them that there is no middle ground, no compromise possible since they are contradicting and irreconcilable. And there are some of those fundamental issues. Basic human rights are not up for discussion or compromise for a lot of people.

This comic summed it up rather well https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHQGsnPUQAAfMgB.jpg:large

What are you willing to compromise when it comes to the right to exist? Only some get killed?

Its of course a hyperbole, but I think thats the mechanic that leads to ever increasing factions that are completely opposed with extreme positions. You always had issues you were not willing to compromise on, but you rarely came into contact with people holding the completely opposing position. Of course there was the city whack job, but he was just that. Some guy. The point of reference was on representatives of "the other side". Politicians and so on. Which had to press (ideally of course) for a position that was the middle ground of his constituency, which was generally not the most extreme one to not scare away more moderate voters. Real conflict here came from fundamentally opposing that consensus of a large group.

With the death of political parties and movements you dont have that representation of the found consensus of the other side anylonger. Everyone can get a platform on the internet and the most extreme positions get the biggest coverage. If you hear often enough about extremist whackjobs in some group, you will sooner or later look for a group opposing those whackjobs.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/poll-americans-fear-e...

I think we can witness that for a while now. You dont think "your side is right", its just that the perceived alternative is absolute horror.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a specific example(s) of a side sacrificing a deeper issue in order to win, in recent history? I'm having trouble coming up with examples.

How about the US government in the 1960's conceding to civil rights demands in order to avoid a violent revolution?

Are you saying that the people who were fighting for civil rights actually deserved to lose because they were willing to... fight to get them?

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a lot of social issues, being given the midpoint solution is like being given half a baby. I think this cuts to the heart of the issue - and demonstrates the problem with this line of thinking. I also think you're missing the point of the Solomon story. When Solomon proposed that solution, one woman said "No, no - give her the baby." That woman was willing to compromise. She was willing to compromise all the wa…

Can you provide a specific example(s) of a side sacrificing a deeper issue in order to win, in recent history? I'm having trouble coming up with examples.

We have a couple recent examples. If you think that the freedom of speech on the internet is important and foundational, then FOSTA appears to be us trading a deeper issue for a shallower one. Leaving aside the fact that it's not even likely to fix the problem it's trying to solve.

A similar example: the recent court cases by state AGs to ban certain types of CAD files from being published.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be true and racist at the same time. If you never care about rapes except when it’s a dark skinned perpetrator in a white dominated country, then you are both racist and correct that that rape amongst refugees is an important issue.

I think you're setting up a strawman there. What he's saying is that media organizations are intentionally ignoring issues that would stand out by themselves, but choose not to cover them because of certain characteristics of the offenders. This leads to extremism as people who rely on those sources for news coverage end up completely misinformed about the world and find people discussing matters to be doing so out o…

You think there are no real people who only care about rape when it’s interracial? That is what straw man means. You think I described a man who doesn’t exist?

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#178
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if I watch a video on vegetarianism, then another one, it may strengthen the confidence that I am interested in vegetarianism, and conclude that they should be recommending me more content about vegetarianism Recommendation algorithms don't "conclude" anything though, they are merely statistical tools to ensure you get somewhat relevant content, but they are never perfect because there is a lot of noise in what eve…

Not perfect is understatement They are horrible. Not just because of what the article is about, but because their recommendations are ridiculous avwn outside political content. And youtube rules also motivate providers to churn out a lot of content regularly (leading to quick to produce crap) and punish those who take their time to think or research before they talk.

It becomes much less horrible when you consistently train the algorithm with the "I'm not interested" button. You can even choose if you're not interested because you already saw the video, dislike the theme, or dislike the channel. My YouTube home page is pretty good now, after doing this about 20 times. Any time I watch something vaguely conservative and start getting "SJW CUCK OWNED!!!" everywhere, one button press is usually enough to instantly revert back.

The problem is probably 1% or less of users ever click it.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#179

> Users searching for news on Chemnitz would be sent down a rabbit hole of misinformation and hate. And as interest in Chemnitz grew, it appears, YouTube funneled many Germans to extremist pages, whose view counts skyrocketed. As a long time YouTube user, I've noticed this myself. The starting video doesn't even have to be extreme. For example, watching a 5-minute daily news video on Fox News channel primes YouTube's…

1791L? How is that an "extreme position?"

I’ve seen a few of their videos - their analysis is definitely out of the mainstream.

Defending “whomp whomp” and saying the response is worse comes to mind.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#180
post #23

This was addressed more broadly in "We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads" by Zeynep Tufekci on TED. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15891014 She remarked that Youtube's recommendation system invariably pushes people towards more extreme views on anything , not just politics. Interested in vegetarianism? Here's something about veganism. She has a hypothesis it works this way because the goal…

She recently got interviewed in Ezra Klein's show to discuss the same: https://art19.com/shows/the-ezra-klein-show/episodes/109611f... To paraphrase one of the better soundbites in the show: YouTube is like that friend in high school who always outdoes you no matter what you do. You're vegetarian, she's vegan; you're moderate left or right, she's at the more extreme end of the political spectrum; etc.

Thanks for using this Art19 link, I’d never heard of this company. Glad to know there are folks out there hard at work ruining podcasts.
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