Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 307 posts

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#291

Post by dragonwriter »

hndamien wrote: post #290
slededit wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A randomly stopping car is dangerous even to people who aren't tailgating. A human would be charged with dangerous driving for that - which is a felony in my jurisdiction.

Both behaviours aren't great, but the at-fault driver would be at the back. Even though the stopping frequently randomly is likely more dangerous.

Fault isn't necessarily exclusive, and drivers of the front vehicle in a rear end collision may be at (legal) fault. [0]

More importantly for discussion of an automated system shadow braking, however, fault of drivers based on negligence (or more serious mental states, like recklessness) is a separate concept from fault of manufacturers for product defects (which is based on strict liability, not negligence, and therefore bars to liability based on negligence of the injured party due to contributory or modified comparative negligence theories would not generally apply; liability might be barred on a theory of superseding intervening cause, but that would require the intervening cause to be unforseeable—too close freeway following is not so rare as to be an unforseeable intervening cause and thus would not usually limit recovery on a strict liability product defect claim.)

[0] see, e.g., https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-fault-automatic-r...

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#292

Post by sophistication »

velcrovan wrote: post #211
sophistication wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whatever that means I mean that he is a rare kind of public figure who is really down-to-earth, yet proponent of the free market & innovation. Like Trump he breaks with the norms, but he's a lot more sincere. He also does not seem to outsource overseas very much, which kind of fits into the MAGA narrative.

Well, like you said, the average person does not care about stuff like that. By the way if you like sincere down to earth people who break with norms and are in favor of tariffs, check out the chapo trap house podcast

There are good reasons to assume that tariffs are not enough. From the episode I've listened to it seems they are hypergamy deniers.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#293

Post by hndamien »

zaroth wrote: post #258
zepearl wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmmhh, I don't understand what is meant with "selling" in the first article (" https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2018/09/06/tesla-model-3-outsel... ). Is it related to "delivering" the vehicles that were ordered long time back or is it related to brand new orders for new cars? Asking because if it's the first case then of course the comparison would not be fair.

These are cars that Tesla is collecting $50k+ at the time of delivery for each one. Yeah there are about 400,000 people lined up to buy them, and they will keep on selling them just as fast as they can make them for many many more months. We don’t know how many new reservation holders are being added at the end of the list, just that the total dollar value of all deposits on hand is increasing. You’re right though it…

They really are sales. Anecdotally, I pre-ordered a model S, for a little more. Eventually when it can time to buy, I got my money back (actually more due to exchange rates). I then pre-ordered a model 3. Eventually, I will cancel that order too because I ended up upgrading to a Model S. The point here is, Tesla still need to convince people to hand over the cash. The cost of withdrawal and sunk cost in minimal if you don't like it.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#294

Post by dragonwriter »

justin66 wrote: post #281
toomuchtodo wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the general state statute you're up against (as the person rear ending someone on the interstate): “Any person driving a vehicle on a highway shall drive the same at a careful and prudent speed not greater than nor less than is reasonable and proper, having due regard to the traffic, surface and width of the highway and any other conditions then existing, and no person shall drive any vehicle upon a highway a…

You've described the statute in some state for spacing between cars or something, but in some states "brake checking" is mentioned explicitly in the criminal code, and in others it can be prosecuted as vehicular assault. It's harder to prove without a dashcam, but if there are witnesses it is certainly possible. That's a bit of a sideshow. Tesla needs to worry about the civil liability involved in making a car that s…

> For example, "The driver is still 100% responsible, just as they would be for cruise control" is absolutely not going to impress anyone as a defense if there is enough property damage or personal injury involving such a feature to justify a class action.

Class action vs. direct action is immaterial; Tesla can't disclaim it's liability for manufacturing g defects even if it tried, and stating that the driver remains responsible for following traffic laws isn't even superficially a disclaimer of product defect liability anyway.

Product defect liability is strict liability for damages produced, and there's a fairly high bar for excluding liability due to intervening causes which would not generally apply to the simple negligence of a driver (either of a Tesla or the other involved vehicle) which contributed to a collision where the defective operation of an assist system was also a contributing cause.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#295

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

bdcravens wrote: post #225
HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If Tesla needs more money, investors will use that as a leverage to get the Elon Musk problem addressed. Sounds you are lost into your own bubble. Every vote for removing Musk has failed completely in the past.

Those votes have failed due to how the company's voting structure is set up. It takes about 90% of the vote outside of Musk and insiders to oust him.

They barely hit single-digits though.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#296

Post by matwood »

9935c101ab17a66 wrote: post #246
matwood wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the head HR person. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/another-tesla-executive-leav... > Sorry, this entire narrative you have invested in of executives running for the hills just has no relation to reality. TSLA supporters thinking everything is fine are the ones that have no relation to reality.

yah but that's not what you said. damn, I think Tesla is an incredibly dysfunctional company and has a lot of problems, but you're literally making things up. admit you were wrong and you're initial statement was completely inaccurate and move on.

From the original article:

Tesla has long struggled with high turnover involving its senior executives, and its finance team in particular has gone through a period of significant tumult. In the first quarter of this year, the company lost Morton’s predecessor, Eric Branderiz, and Susan Repo, who was treasurer and vice president of finance. CFO Deepak Ahuja retired in 2015, only to return last year when his successor, Jason Wheeler, quit after just 15 months.

And I said:

> A rotating door of financial executives screams financial problems.

3 (4 if you count the return of Ahuja to fill in) CFO/CAOs in the last 3 years.

- Ahuja - Wheeler - Ajuha - Branderiz - Morton

This doesn't count the VPs that have come and gone or other executives.

More than 50 vice presidents or higher have left the company in the past two years. Mr. Musk has said he sees executive turnover as being in line with that of other large companies and has announced plans for a reorganization aimed at flattening the layers of managers. [1]

Please tell me where I'm making things up.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-appears-to-smoke-mari...

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#297

Post by matwood »

dmode wrote: post #148
matwood wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you realize how much FUD is disseminated daily in the mainstream media. FUD is what people do to Apple when they are making money hand over fist every quarter. TSLA is just a terribly run company that may end up out of business. Which is sad, because they have what appears to be a good product. Their production arrogance may not be able to be overcome though. This is also standard Musk to blame short-…

A company that went from selling 11 cars in 2011 to 200k cars in 2018 is poorly run ?

TSLA is horribly run and managed. Another responder already mentioned the losses from TSLA itself, but I think the SolarCity bailout is proof enough.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2016/07/12/ba...

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#298

Post by mgiannopoulos »

hi5eyes wrote: post #128
dnomad wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of PR effort do you need when every CFO you hire keeps leaving? It's really gotten to a point where all the Musk-haters now believe their own bullshit. This post (and many others in HN's bi-weekly anti-Musk thread) is a classic example. Tesla had had a grand total of two CFOs since Musk took over. > Could it be that that person is being pushed to stretch things a bit here and there to make them look bette…

CFO and Chief of HR both left? coincidence? must just be the shorts and their propagandizing https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/another-tesla-executive-leav...

Chief Accounting Officer != CFO

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#299

Post by beamatronic »

pesmhey wrote: post #253
this_user wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have about a year of cash runway left( optimistically) Much less than that actually. At their current burn rate they won't even be making it to the end of this year without either selling enough M3 to generate some real cash, or by raising some new money from the market. Also, they have a lot of debt come due next year (and even more over the following years) while yields are up to over 8%. However, M3 product…

Hey, honestly though...the name ‘M3’ de facto belongs to BMW. You know that. Everyone else who’s commenting on a thread about luxury cars knows that. The fact that you’re using that name to describe some upstart car company’s new model, it’s...it’s weird. Like, just call it the model fucking 3. God I can’t wait for the Tesla fanboydom to just be put in its place. Cool concept, not cool people attached to it. M3, lol.

Who refers to a Tesla Model 3 as a “M3”?

“M3” has and will always refer to a BMW.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#300

Post by Spooky23 »

zaroth wrote: post #255
cliffordthedog wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the tesla fan really want to get in to an argument about build quality right now? A fire at a factory shutting it down is not hte same type of drama as constantly missing estimates and using a tent to extend the line.

Fan or not, GP said there was no way Tesla could make and sell 25,000 cars a month and here they are last month selling 20,000. Would it be so shocking to see a month with 25k? GP said Ford makes the F150s with “no drama” and yet their factory is burning and their cars are catching fire — something I recall Tesla getting flack for, but Tesla never had a $140 million recall for it. I get it, different standards for di…

Give me a break. Tesla is working massive backlog of pre-orders generated by the hype associated with the company. Some people have been waiting years. There’s no world where 25,000 people a month are showing up and driving away with a car.

Ford had an F-150 production stoppage due to a fire, and was able to restart production a few weeks later. They had the capital and (invisible, unsexy) team to deploy Russian heavy lift aircraft to move key tools in hours and restore production. It was largely invisible.

With Tesla, you have the constant stream of PR and the apparent need for the CEO to personally assume control of the factory to meet minimum requirements. The process and company is broken.

Post reply on HN