Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms • Hacker News Board

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#171

Post by krausejj » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

krausejj wrote: post #164

Why isn’t Google on this list? Is it because they monetize your location data in-house?

(this was meant to be snarky. i'm just a developer with a calendar app that requests location data to humbly provide location place recommendations... no monetization, no sharing of this data, and it's essential to being able to fill out the "location" field accurately. this constant stream of negative attacks against apps not built by FAANG is destroying trust in independent apps, due to the actions of a few bad actors. ironically, this is just driving people back to a handful of monopolies who monetize user data in-house. the winner here is google (and, let's be honest, they are probably already doing something with the location data we're sending them to get the nearest place ids).)

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#172

Post by judge2020 » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:04 PM UTC

jscheel wrote: post #169

From the article: "[ASKfm] asks for access to a user’s location that “won’t be shared with anyone.” But the app sends that location data to two data firms, AreaMetrics and Huq. When reached, the app maker said it believes its location collection practices “fit industry standards, and are therefore acceptable for our users.” Surely this is legally actionable activity, right?

If they specifically lie about how the location data is shared, yep.

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#173

Post by phlyingpenguin » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

mr_toad wrote: post #44

I wonder if some of what these developers are engaged in could legally be interpreted as fraud? Civil fraud is a thing. Some of these developers have: - making misleading and knowingly false statements - profiting from these actions - people were fooled by these statements The tricky part might be demonstrating ‘harm’, but at least some jurisdictions have enshrined a legal right to privacy, violation of which could b…

In the case of Gas Buddy (and larger, Cuebiq), I've seen two family members have their entire data plan used up on their behalf by the location services being overused. I'm guessing a bug in a recent version of their library. It might be possible to argue at least a phone bill out of them as harm.

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#174

Post by driverdan » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #114

The company I work for was acquired by a Chinese giant. Recently they sent us a static lib (i.e. no source available) to include in our app for “fraud detection”. We complied.

You didn't ask what it was or where it came from?

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#175

Post by jsjohnst » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

minhazm423 wrote: post #120

jsjohnst wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We used a combination You were involved? Why am I not surprised! Thanks for doing your part my friend.

can you tell me a bit about him?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=will+strafach

https://www.google.com/search?q=will+strafach

http://www.bing.com/search?q=will+strafach

Not to be a smartass (otherwise I’d have used LMGTFY for the URL), but seriously there’s a ton of info simply gathered just by searching his name.

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#176

Post by driverdan » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

beached_whale wrote: post #15

One thing to keep in mind is that ip addresses provide a pretty good location too. Even without GPS data, they at worst know what city you are in, probably down to the house depending on the ISP

This isn't true for mobile networks.

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#177

Post by jsjohnst » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

wruza wrote: post #121

jsjohnst wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, what does it being open source help? They could publish the app source without the tracking SDKs (especially as some of them are big enough now that you have to hassle with git-lfs even if you wanted to commit it) and then build it with the tracking SDKs before submitting to the App Store.

Other people could build these apps at build farm and publish under trusted vendor name like linux distributions do. You don’t trust vim.deb from anyone, but e.g. vim.org and ftp.??.debian.org/debian have at least strictly no intent to abuse you.

You realize we are talking about iOS / the App Store, right?

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#178

Post by MBCook » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

fooker wrote: post #134

MBCook wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal evidence I’ve heard from developers is that there are a HUGE number of people who think that Apple makes all the software for the iPhone. It’s an Apple phone, you go to Apple’s App Store, so whatever you buy is Apple software. It’s blatantly false, but it’s out there. Just like people thinking of Google as “the Internet“ because it’s the thing they see when they open their web browser. Someone recently said…

>Chances are Apple giving you $10,000 to go away would be far more than you could ever get out of the individual developer even with a full trial. Chances are Apple is going to ignore you unless 'you' are big enough to induce bad PR.

Realistically: I agree, they don’t care and wouldn’t pay you off.

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#179

Post by MBCook » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #63

MBCook wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of counterexamples to that. People making small games they want to give away for free, utilities that are too small to be able to charge for, free apps that have additional features behind an IAP or subscription. Just because an app it’s free doesn’t mean it has to be something incredibly scummy.

On the other end, paying no longer seems to ensure that the app/service won't be scummy anyways.

No, it won’t many of the problematic apps that exist in the App Store have “paid“ versions that remove ads but probably continue to do all the other scummy stuff.

I think it’s a ratio thing. When it comes to good:scummy i’m guessing you’re more likely to end up on the good side of the scale by quite a bit for paid apps than free.

Re: Popular iPhone apps caught sending user location data to monetization firms

#180

Post by MBCook » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #126

MBCook wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to solo developers overseas Why is that kind of racism necessary at all? It has nothing to do with where people are. Developers want money. Duh. But the App Store has gone to “ basically everything is free“. The only two ways to accomplish that for most developers are in app purchases, which don’t work every app, and ad/data sales. As new people find new ways to monetize data that they can get their hands on, they’…

That's not racism - as fipple mentions, there are significant differences in legal accountability. And even if there weren't, pretty sure that would be considered slight xenophobia rather than racism.

You’re right. Xenaphobia was the word I meant to use.

The legal issue seems like a red herring. Selling an app in the American App Store makes you subject to American law.