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YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

nytimes.com

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Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#21
post #5

See also Danah Boyd's talk on how media literacy classes push some students toward extremism. The gist is that schools have been promoting programs where students are taught not to take what they see in the media at face value, and to go Google/YouTube it for themselves. Which, because of the sorts of things discussed in this article, results in a certain percentage of students becoming radicalized and basically (or…

[dead]

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#23
This was addressed more broadly in "We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads" by Zeynep Tufekci on TED.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15891014

She remarked that Youtube's recommendation system invariably pushes people towards more extreme views on anything, not just politics. Interested in vegetarianism? Here's something about veganism. She has a hypothesis it works this way because the goal is to make people spend as much time on a site as possible, and feeding people progressively more extreme content works for that.

My comment: what does it say about us humans that we fall for progressively more extreme stuff? Perhaps that few people actually hold balanced views and nowadays a compromise is looked down upon and a mark of a weak character?

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#24

Just anecdotally, Youtube's recommendation system seems effectively self-referential. On virtually any subject I look at, recommended videos seem to cycle between just a few themes or even just a few specific videos. I think there's a logical reason for this. I imagine for a given topic you wind-up with: [broad video] related to [other broad but unrelated video] plus [extremist video]. And [extremist video] related t…

I've noticed this as well, the algorithm hones in on a few topics and videos. Interestingly enough, so does the algorithm on the Quora app. I hate this behavior, I want to use a recommendation algorithm to discover new similar content. My guess is that a "new similar content" algorithm doesn't get the same levels of engagement. Maybe its the same as radio stations playing the same twenty songs on a loop.

Clearly google knows what their doing, its just disheartening that this algorithm is the best for engagement. Also makes me wonder about human habit and reinforcement...

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#25
For people who are new to this topic and find it to be surprising: This is not new. There is a term for this called "echo chamber":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

I have observed this trend happening on Internet since 2014 and written about it in my blog:

https://paradite.com/2014/11/11/internet-polarized-society/

Previously it was more for closed communities like reddit and Facebook groups, but seems like now it is also substantial on open platforms.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#26
The international corporate media has not been honest in its reporting of the refugee situation in Europe. This is becoming clearer year by year, because some of the facts that were earlier dismissed as racist rhetoric are now becoming very difficult to ignore. For example earlier this year, Chancellor Merkel finally admitted that there are "no-go" zones in the country where even the police dare not go. This is an extremely serious problem.

People flock to this content because they are not getting the whole truth from the corporate media, and that is the root of this problem. YouTube's content would not be compelling if these things were being reported honestly, and given the same degree of volume as other important stories.

In my country, India, there are plenty of places in which the value systems are completely at odds with ideas of gender equality, religious tolerance, racial equality, and LGBT equality. If a western country were to create pockets of populations where people held these values, it would be extremely incompatible with the norm in the societies that they have achieved today. As a result, these places would be radically transformed into incredibly dangerous areas, particularly for women and LGBT folks. It is not bigoted to point this out, it is true because this reality exists in our country, and it is one that we are aware of and grapple with. Of course it will exist in another country if a large enough number of people who hold these ideas are imported en masse. If these values existed in Syria or Sudan or other parts of the world where refugees are coming from, of course this will become a problem for the country that is resettling them. This was a valid criticism that did not get a fair enough deal from the media, and the consequences have been life altering for many Europeans.

The dream of multicultural societies where everyone lives together in harmony requires everyone to buy into it. If there are bad actors, and others are aware of this, it does not make them bad actors too. The media seems to have been hesitant, perhaps because of fears of stoking xenophobia by providing it with legitimate information that could be compelling for their cause. There is never a good reason not to tell the truth about these things, this is the result of what happens when you go down that path. At this point, many are convinced that the news media had sinister and not well intentioned motives, behind why this was done, and as a result trust in the news media too will decline rapidly, in favor of rag tag YouTube operations.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#27
Instead of trying to solve the "problem" of YouTube showing pro-AfD content to users who are searching for information on a stabbing, how about removing asylum seekers from Germany so people don't get stabbed in the first place?

Saying "we shouldn't let asylum seekers enter the country because they might be dangerous and we don't have enough information on them to assess the situation correctly" shouldn't be an "extreme position" to begin with!

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#28
post #26

The international corporate media has not been honest in its reporting of the refugee situation in Europe. This is becoming clearer year by year, because some of the facts that were earlier dismissed as racist rhetoric are now becoming very difficult to ignore. For example earlier this year, Chancellor Merkel finally admitted that there are "no-go" zones in the country where even the police dare not go. This is an ex…

It can be true and racist at the same time.

If you never care about rapes except when it’s a dark skinned perpetrator in a white dominated country, then you are both racist and correct that that rape amongst refugees is an important issue.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#29

The focus of this article is on right-wing extreme content, but I think the tendency is true on both sides. The fact is that partisans are more likely to seek out news content, and partisans are happier with content that matches their prior viewpoint. And so the extreme content rises in popularity and is presented as the recommended option to the less partisan. It's a worthwhile question as to whether this is a flaw…

The extreme left aren't involved in mass murder at anything like the extent that the extreme right are.

When looking at HVE groups the far left appears rarely, those lists are full of either militant Islamist or Far Right groups.

The focus on the far right happens because it's the far right that are murdering people.

Re: YouTube's tendency to push everyday users toward politically extreme content

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the same thing on a completely uncontroversial subject: music videos. If I watch e.g. a Beatles video, the recommendations aren't [Rolling Stones, Kinks, Badfinger, ...], they're always [Beatles, Beatles, Beatles, ...]. I don't know if it's naive and bad or if it's actually good for engagement and I'm just an outlier in what I expect to get.

I only wish I would get songs by the same band... It sort of seems like Youtube tries its darndest to steer me away from the current band. I'd be happy if it just cycled between hits from the same artists, but I've never seen it do this recently. I think what's most frustrating about it is I don't know what game they're playing. Recommendations used to be logical, now they're almost a waste of screen real estate. Wha…

Dislikes and "not interested" are important.
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