Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#141

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #139

ryandrake wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are far fewer development (or other white collar, low physical effort) opportunities in rural areas. If remote work ever gains significant traction, this would be a viable way to save housing expense.

> There are far fewer development (or other white collar, low physical effort) opportunities in rural areas. In my foolish youth I once tried to maintain two development jobs at the same time. That turned out to be a really big mistake. With that in hindsight, I really have to question why people are worried about how much opportunity there is. Maybe you are better than me and can handle two jobs without issue, but t…

As someone who's been through two major tech downturns so far and found myself scrambling without a job on several occasions, that seems like a risky strategy. I've been in situations where, without exaggeration, nobody local was hiring. When there's only one tech employer within 100 miles, a sudden job change means moving your family, possibly to a different state. In employment hubs, you're less at risk of this.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#142

Post by kajecounterhack » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 7:50 PM UTC

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #81

kajecounterhack wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they got a degree that doesn't lead to gainful employment due to lack of research before choosing a major, or they let themselves be bullshitted by some university's marketing and wayyyyy overpaid for their degree. Correct. But this happens because not everyone is privileged enough to get good advice. The vast majority of 18 year olds know nothing, they've seen none of the world, and can only rely on the little kno…

> The vast majority of 18 year olds know nothing, they've seen none of the world, and can only rely on the little knowledge they've acquired up to that point in their life. Which is why IMO, we should stop pushing 18 year olds into college. Let them work a full-time job somewhere and live outside of their parents' place for a few years go get a feel for the real world. > society's advice has been it's "go to college,…

> The TL;DR is that capitalism sucks, but it sucks less than the alternatives.

This sentiment makes two mistakes. The first is that it implies capitalism is only a whole framework and can't be treated as a function to be applied piecewise in a larger system. The second is that "no alternatives are as good." This is like saying C++ is the best programming language; it certainly has its merits, but can totally be used in conjunction with other languages and programming language research doesn't just sit still; new compositions of ideas are constantly coming and we can learn from the mistakes of poorly designed systems to build better ones.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#143

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

kajecounterhack wrote: post #142

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of 18 year olds know nothing, they've seen none of the world, and can only rely on the little knowledge they've acquired up to that point in their life. Which is why IMO, we should stop pushing 18 year olds into college. Let them work a full-time job somewhere and live outside of their parents' place for a few years go get a feel for the real world. > society's advice has been it's "go to college,…

> The TL;DR is that capitalism sucks, but it sucks less than the alternatives. This sentiment makes two mistakes. The first is that it implies capitalism is only a whole framework and can't be treated as a function to be applied piecewise in a larger system. The second is that "no alternatives are as good." This is like saying C++ is the best programming language; it certainly has its merits, but can totally be used…

To be fair, it's a TL;DR. The debate is certainly far more intricate than that. In this overly-simplified context, "capitalism" is being treated in a bit of a binary nature, with "communism" (or perhaps traditional socialism, i.e., not Bernie Sander's brand of democratic socialism) being the alternative.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#144

Post by randomdata » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:17 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #141

randomdata wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are far fewer development (or other white collar, low physical effort) opportunities in rural areas. In my foolish youth I once tried to maintain two development jobs at the same time. That turned out to be a really big mistake. With that in hindsight, I really have to question why people are worried about how much opportunity there is. Maybe you are better than me and can handle two jobs without issue, but t…

As someone who's been through two major tech downturns so far and found myself scrambling without a job on several occasions, that seems like a risky strategy. I've been in situations where, without exaggeration, nobody local was hiring. When there's only one tech employer within 100 miles, a sudden job change means moving your family, possibly to a different state. In employment hubs, you're less at risk of this.

I also went through both of those downturns while working in a rural area. The first time, which was early in my career, I voluntarily left one job to join another during it all. I found no issues with the job market at that time. I have found that, in general, tech jobs are often easier to come by in rural areas as tech professionals prefer to not live in such places, leaving no competition for what jobs are available.

The second time, later in my career, I did find myself without work, but with the substantial savings I was able to accumulate thanks to a low cost of living, I didn't even bother to look for another job. I essentially took a couple of months of vacation during the worst of it and then employers started knocking on my door again when things started to turn around.

I am sure another downturn will come again, and if that means having to move, so be it. I also have no qualms about working in other industries. I'm especially fond of the agriculture industry, which is convenient for me. But, as you well know, having a tech career for long enough to have gone through those two downturns, we're getting into the position that we could start to seriously think about retiring when that time comes. While the average career may not have that luxury, you can save a lot of money with a high tech income.

The risk seems overblown to me. If the worst case scenario is having to move back to where you came, that's not a very big risk. You will be there even if you stay put.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#145

Post by mmirate » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

netfire wrote: post #108

mmirate wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> payday loan fees ... playing the lottery ... poor financial decisions and money management ... predatory lending ... consumer spending Those are all basically taxes on idiocy and innumeracy. Idiocy and innumeracy are arguably vices whose prevalence in society should be counteracted. In the absence of the abject and horrifying immorality/aggression/violence of state eugenics, isn't taxation the next most effective t…

Several states already ban payday loans and some don’t allow lotteries (let alone state sponsored lotteries that are used to fund things like education). Personally, I think setting an effective interest rate cap (including loan fees) at around 15-20% a year would be very effective at preventing the kind of lending that can lead someone to multiple years of high-interest debt repayment or eventual bankruptcy. More ed…

> beneficial.

For certain people, in the short term, until their inherent stupidity allows them to commit further mistakes that actually impact others...

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#146

Post by EADGBE » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

EADGBE wrote: post #130

fomojola wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not emphasized enough: prior to the last 100 years, the concept of retirement as currently visualized simply did not exist. You had kids, and the kids took care of you in your old age (or you just had a terrible old age). A very small number of people had the resource base to survive growing old gracefully: Social Security was an attempt to extend that to all on a consistent basis. That's not to say some form…

> A very small number of people had the resource base to survive growing old gracefully: Social Security was an attempt to extend that to all on a consistent basis. It was designed as a safety net for lower/middle income, disabled workers, and benefactors to workers; not a primary source of retirement income. It's becoming more and more apparent that it's the former, not the latter.

*beneficiaries, not benefactors

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#147

Post by acchow » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 10:42 PM UTC

tylerapplebaum wrote: post #17

acchow wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used to retire by having a few kids who would take care of them. I prefer shrinking our population, especially as developing countries are rapidly growing.

How will this work in a consumption-driven economy?

Slower growth?

You don't need population growth for economic growth. Technology is sufficient.