Berlin Google Campus occupied • Hacker News Board

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#171

Post by sizzle » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

evanlivingston wrote: post #92

TulliusCicero wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you quite grasp the effects of a massive influx of hundreds to thousands of new individuals making $150k-250k. I'm from the bay area and pay close attention to land use/zoning issues, so yeah, I think I do. The bay area has had particularly extreme series of decades of rent increases precisely because of anti-housing policies. If the market was allowed to respond, rents would still rise, to be sure, b…

Or conversely, look at Portland for an example a place where keeping up with housing demand has not translated into preserving a quantity of affordable housing. Abstracted supply and demand alone does not result in ensuring housing at various price points

Conversely? Did I misinterpret your comment?

Rent has significantly increased in the Portland metro area and gentrification is in full effect. There are vacant luxury multi-tenant properties littering the city and many more in the planning stages. As more tech companies enter the Portland market, expect this trend to accelerate.

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#172

Post by Xylakant » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 8:41 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #164

Xylakant wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zalando, especially the new office space close to the Lido, has been heavily protested against. The space has been squatted IIRC, but it’s harder to make news by squatting an empty plot. The space close to the Ostbahnhof is less contentious since it’s not right in the middle of a living area but in a newly built commercial zone.

But what they are protesting is not necessarliy the office building, but the influx of well paid tech workers that the companies bring with them. There, the building near Ostbahnhof or the Rocket Tower should be just as controversial. In the 3 years of living in Berlin, I feel like the recent Google protests are the only thing that got any significant attention.

The protest is mainly against the gentrification of the immediate neighborhood. So buildings that are less clearly in a living area are less contested.

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#173

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Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#174

Post by true_tuna » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

If you don’t want the housing pressure brought by new jobs, don’t allow new jobs. If you want new jobs without increased housing pressure peg the number of new housing permits to the number of new jobs. Or put another way, look at what happened Silicon Valley for a splendid example of how NOT to do it.

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#175

Post by ada1981 » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

ada1981 wrote: post #135

This is a great line: “The Google Campus is intended to be a magnet for annoying young entrepreneurs whose IT-sweatshops (“start-ups”) promise to deliver new ideas to Google’s company business.”

Anyway this could get incorporated into the actual Google mission statement ;)

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#176

Post by true_tuna » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

evanlivingston wrote: post #92

TulliusCicero wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you quite grasp the effects of a massive influx of hundreds to thousands of new individuals making $150k-250k. I'm from the bay area and pay close attention to land use/zoning issues, so yeah, I think I do. The bay area has had particularly extreme series of decades of rent increases precisely because of anti-housing policies. If the market was allowed to respond, rents would still rise, to be sure, b…

Or conversely, look at Portland for an example a place where keeping up with housing demand has not translated into preserving a quantity of affordable housing. Abstracted supply and demand alone does not result in ensuring housing at various price points

Portland in no way kept up with adding new housing at the same rate it added jobs.

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#177

Post by trhway » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

ada1981 wrote: post #135

This is a great line: “The Google Campus is intended to be a magnet for annoying young entrepreneurs whose IT-sweatshops (“start-ups”) promise to deliver new ideas to Google’s company business.”

citizens of economically successful society with rich culture and strong labor laws can allow themselves to have such a POV :)

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#178

Post by carapace » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 4:45 AM UTC

throwaway34241 wrote: post #170

carapace wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the data do not back that up: https://www.theurbanist.org/2016/05/27/rents-in-san-francisc... In order for new construction to materially affect rent rate we would have to build more housing faster than it has ever been done before, for decades to come. Leaving aside the question of whether it is desirable to convert SF into another Manhattan, we could actually do it: there are modern methods to build entire new…

How do people not earning $100,000 afford to live there? They commute 2 hours each way (for real). I think it's unreasonable to expect a live-and-let live attitude to NIMBYs on online forums, while NIMBYs are pricing out the people who work in their neighborhoods through housing policy. Sure there are other issues like global warming but it's not like having a place to live is a trivial issue . It's more than reasona…

> They commute 2 hours each way (for real).

But that's garbage. Have you tried it? It sucks.

> NIMBYs are pricing out the people who work in their neighborhoods through housing policy.

Well no, you're wrong and that's my point. Wages drive rent rate increases according to the data going back 70 years.

If all the people you call pejorative names suddenly saw things your way and we all changed the zoning and laws and such overnight AND all the construction companies in the entire state came to the Bay Area and built nothing but apartment buildings all day every day for the next fifty years then MAYBE rents would level off, or at least rise more slowly.

Please stop calling your neighbors names for liking their neighborhood. It's not nice and it doesn't win arguments. And you're wrong anyway.

We could build at the fastest conceivable rate and it would not solve the problem.

> But approving lots of jobs, not zoning/approving the necessary housing, and then making excuses/blaming others as there's a shortage and prices/commutes go up

Whoa dude. Who is this super-human political dynamo who has done all of this?

> a massive political failure

Yes. And calling people names won't help. Not even a little bit.

> painting NIMBYs with a broad brush

More like painting with a hose.

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#179

Post by evanlivingston » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 4:48 AM UTC

sizzle wrote: post #171

evanlivingston wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or conversely, look at Portland for an example a place where keeping up with housing demand has not translated into preserving a quantity of affordable housing. Abstracted supply and demand alone does not result in ensuring housing at various price points

Conversely? Did I misinterpret your comment? Rent has significantly increased in the Portland metro area and gentrification is in full effect. There are vacant luxury multi-tenant properties littering the city and many more in the planning stages. As more tech companies enter the Portland market, expect this trend to accelerate.

Right, I'm agreeing with you. Portland has increased housing substantially without preserving affordability.

Re: Berlin Google Campus occupied

#180

Post by titzer » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 7:59 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #153

titzer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honest question: where would you prefer to put those thousands of individuals making $150-250k? Well, tech companies, if anybody, should have figured out telecommuting, but they don't because of policies directly from the top. But failing that, tech giants are giant because they want to be giant and have a tendency to want to gobble up smaller companies. A less sharp growth rate and a more "small business-oriented"…

> A less sharp growth rate On the macro scale we're talking about, that means you want everyone to be poorer. You get that, right?

You're assuming a whole host of things:

1. High growth creates durable wealth

2. Growth does not create waste

3. Trickle down economics

4. High growth doesn't create bust cycles

5. High growth doesn't ruin the environment

I mean, I could go on--it is a complex topic, after all--but your comment wanted to reduce it down to some kind of richer/poorer dichotomy, which is obviously false. And it was snarky, which is annoying.