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EU copyright reform: the facts

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Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#81
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one apocalyptic scenario here that everyone ignores: it is monetary compensation that keeps the social norm. Remove that, make it so only the rich or the obsessed write, make music, etc, and they will increasing do so for their own ends, because there is no reason not to. Social alone approval will motivate very few to commit to the amount of work necessary for most creative endeavors. On the surface, of cou…

I think everyone ignores it because it's so far fetched (even if they go as far as assuming copyright == monetary compensation)

How does anyone otherwise do work that is distributed via mass mechanical reproduction?

Disney could operate private theatres that threw out and banned people with recording devices, but how could home distribution function.

For popular work, we are back at the pre-copyright world of patronage.

Popular appeal might lead certain rare individuals to monetary compensation in academia, but this, I would say, will be country and culturally dependent. In France, for example, I might see it, but not the United States. And it might lead to a certain amount of tribal-production to sustain the replication of certain cultural norms, but in order for that to e so the trend of production and consumption previously adhered to in these industries (from the consumer viewpoint) will have to be reverse: the consumer will be paying patronage in advance of the creation of the work which will then be mechanically mass reproduced upon release. However, I think a smaller amount of people than currently consumptive model of media will be as likely to switch wholly to a 'pig-in-a-poke'-model. Even with things like netflix, the primary draw has always been that which pre-exists, that which the consumer already knows to be available, and its primary value is not weighted on what necessarily 'might' be produced in the future. People might be willing to fund such models through 'micro transaction', however, any individual funding themselves, thus, would necessarily require a proportionally larger base of funders; however this would have the function of keeping the cultural mytho-poetic framework in check, producing what commonly referred to as 'the lowest common denominator'. Also, however, even if someone were to make a living in this manner, they might not what to in that, no matter what survivable level of income they may derive, a Disney would then, through the sheer economy of their scale, be able to transform that, now mechanically reproduced work into something distributed through the private theatre system at no cost for the acquiring of the source material. This alone may be a sufficient psychological demotivator for many, and present a common source of burnout (thus requiring a change in employment), or even an obstacle to many taking up the profession at all.

The question remains, if the so-called creator is likely to get no monetary compensation, and little in the way of social capital anyway, what will induce them to create any works besides those they want to create. The problem is that 'artistry' in the mytho-poetics of most western countries attains a somewhat religious significance, but the most of its practitioners (or at least those who mange to make their primary living at it) would leave so-called creative fields for greener pastures; it's a job.

(I suppose I should add here that I am very much against to current copyright system as it stands now, though I realize my reply might indicate otherwise. I do, however, become aggravated when the attitudes of so-called consumers amounts to a type a slavery where they want what they want [produced but want it for free, resembles too much those companies that have baited artists and writer with 'exposure' for far too long. As it stands, what is said about the disruptive potential of the internet aside, most writers and artists make what they do (and paltry sums at that) by effectively signing over their copyrights in perpetuity to what amounts to intellectual property holding companies. So the law may say the author owns it, but to see anything from it (in the vast majority of cases) they have to give that right away, and then so-called consumers come along and claim (purely to pinch pennies) that authors should relinquish even (and presenting no alternative) that is, to me, as aggravating as the media conglomerates who do the same.)

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#82
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't hurt by less data-selling. I love the GDPR. It came out of nowhere (I hadn't heard much about it before the big hubbub), I couldn't believe they were doing something so bold, and it reinvigorated my belief in the European Union.

> People aren't hurt by less data-selling You're doing the intent thing where you are saying what you think is the case or the intent instead of the reality. People are hurt by the money they spend applying reasonable compliance risk avoidance measures when new laws come out. People running companies, employees of those companies, customers of those companies, and society as a whole. Maybe you feel the harm is worth…

I'm a strong believer in the primacy of politics over companies.

So if society decides to solve a problem, "it costs some money" is simply no argument against it.

Companies are free to operate in some failed state if they wish not to contribute to society.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#83

From the viewpoint of regulations on business: - GDPR (Facebook/Google) - Article 11 (Reddit) - Article 13 (Github) - Mandated EU Content on streaming providers (Netflix) - EU Internet sales tax (Amazon) The simple question begs: how many more regulations aimed at US companies are coming? At this rate, the more regulations are created at fighting US companies. The number of internet startups and business located in t…

If you can't generate your own innovation and revenue you have to steal it from somewhere. It'll be interesting to see how much longer the EU consumer can stay relevant before they fade into a tertiary market

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#84
post #46

Anyone want to speculate on the chances of this getting approved by the European Parliament? Last July they blocked an earlier version and sent it back to the commission. Edit: And as someone living in the UK, I'm also wondering what the implications of this are for brexit[1]. Will the post-brexit interface between the EU and the UK w/r/t copyright be made even more complicated by this, with knock-on effects on digit…

> I'm also wondering what the implications of this are for brexit We're well into "who knows?" territory, but what would definitely happen is the UK would lose any say over the EU rules. The UK isn't really large enough to be its own market for startups (unlike the EU and US), so we'd mostly end up using companies hosted in one or the other and obliged to follow their rules. (Safe Harbour is probably a more interesti…

If the EU continues down the regulatory path, the UK could become the startup capital of Europe if they market correctly

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#85
post #22

For EU people who want to take action: call or email your Member European Parliament (MEP) and let them know that don't supper the policy (or support it?!?). You can call them via: https://act.openmedia.org/savethelink-call Or email by finding your MEP details on: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/search.html More info on taking action can br found here (scroll a little): https://juliareda.eu/eu-copyright-reform/

You can use an automated (customisable) tool at saveyourinternet.eu to do this too.

Please write in your own words, and preferably from your own e-mail address! I can't see getting a bazillion of copies of the same message being anything but annoying and I wouldn't be surprised if they block the sender of such tools.

I wrote to them last time this was voted on and expected zero replies (partly due to the late hour), but actually got 2 out of 13, one of which indicated they had actually taken a few seconds to read some of my words. I later read they had received "thousands" of messages on the subject. I can't imagine most of them getting anything close to even this small amount of attention.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#86
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyone ignores it because it's so far fetched (even if they go as far as assuming copyright == monetary compensation)

How does anyone otherwise do work that is distributed via mass mechanical reproduction? Disney could operate private theatres that threw out and banned people with recording devices, but how could home distribution function. For popular work, we are back at the pre-copyright world of patronage. Popular appeal might lead certain rare individuals to monetary compensation in academia, but this, I would say, will be coun…

A few notes (not dismissing your post):

- The prepayment model was quite successful in the past; authors like Arthur Conan Doyle, Dickens and Dostoevsky made a living from producing novels in serialized form[1]. This model fits well also with TV shows, podcasts, and potentially video games.

- Plenty of content is already funded by volunteer donations and ads (although, personally, I abhor the latter more than copyright).

- You don't necessarily need copyright to have protection; contracts exist. It's doubtful the competing private theater networks would just copy each other's movies, rather than reach a legal agreement not to do so.

- For certain types of works, live performances provide a funding model that doesn't rely on copyright. It's not copyright that keeps people going to concerts.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_(literature)

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#87

Whether or not you agree with the copyright reforms, it is not helpful to present these opinions (e.g. 'will negatively affect...') as fact. You may as well stand outside the legislative building with a placard. To my mind, it's impossible to take part in the debate until you've realised that your position is a point of view; that other have a different point of view; and that compromise is going to be necessary.

> and that compromise is going to be necessary.

If only one side is compromising, it is not a compromise.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#88
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> France has literally made it illegal to collect data on police brutality and incarceration rates of minorities in France You’ll need to provide a good reference for that because this is completely wrong as far as I know (AI doesn’t mention it, for instance [1]). Again, don’t get me wrong: I deeply disagree with the way police acts and is organised in France. [1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/press-releases/2009/04/fra…

> You’ll need to provide a good reference for that because this is completely wrong as far as I know (AI doesn’t mention it, for instance [1]). Since 1978, it's been illegal in France to collect census information on race. This is done under the guise of providing "equality under the law". In practice, as pretty much any minority could predict, all it does is make it impossible to actually talk about the systemic dis…

Look, I obviously know about this law but this is a completely different thing from what you claimed and it doesn't mean at all that it's forbidden to catalogue police crimes against minorities.

I will concede that it makes it harder to do so by referring to official records (and this is indeed a problem). But your comment sounded like it would be illegal to, for instance, independently collect complaints. And it's emphatically not. Amnesty and others do exactly that, including looking at racial factors.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#89
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify: I find the UK’s knife ban stupid, and it affects me personally (I often cook at friends’ places and, if these friends have no proper knives, I bring my chef’s knife; I also own two valuable antique swords but the rules for bringing them into the country are so complicated that they are indefintely stored at my parents’ place in another country). But like you said, it has nothing to do with EU legislation.…

>To clarify: I find the UK’s knife ban stupid, and it affects me personally (I often cook at friends’ places and, if these friends have no proper knives, I bring my chef’s knife There's nothing in UK law that prevents you from doing this. Bring along a cook book and store the knife securely (and keep it in your bag) and you're going to be fine. If you get stopped by the police mention it straightaway and move from th…

Broad discretion in such laws is the problem. It puts you at the mercy of an individual police officer's whim. More broadly it facilitates discrimination. This isn't a theoretical problem: I know people in London who, due to stop and search, would never dare to carry knives, no matter the reason.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#90
post #79
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s pure trolling: First off, the Article 13 in question was already rejected once by Parliament and is expected to be repealed against (but it doesn’t hurt to be cautious, good on Mozilla). > GDPR While not uncontroversial, GDPR is generally seen as a good thing by experts. > arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute This didn’t happen. The man was arrested for hate speech, not for gestures his…

>The man was arrested for hate speech And the hate speech he was convicted for was training his dog to do a "Bellamy salute".

This is simply wrong. The judgement clarifies explicitly that the hate speech in question was the antisemitic slogans that were used as cues, and which were audible on the video.
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