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EU copyright reform: the facts

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Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#41

Post by jimmaswell »

ethelward wrote: post #18
jimmaswell wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

> GDPR “My oh my, we won't be able to sell people online life without them knowing it” > local movie quotas on services like Netflix Promoting local culture, what a shame. > arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute Of course, if someone is training their dog to do a “Bellamy” salute when prompted by statements including “Heil Hitler” and “gas the Jews”, the chances that this guy is a closet neo-naz…

I meant having a guaranteed number of vacation days.

And I don't care if the guy was a neo-nazi; it shouldn't be the government's job to decide what jokes are too offensive.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#42

Post by kodablah »

skummetmaelk wrote: post #12
jimmaswell wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

Come on now. You cannot compare this to GPDR. GPDR was about protecting individuals, this is about protecting corporate interests. That's why this seems batshit crazy and GPDR is reasonable. The rest of your points are worthless anecdotes. Yes it may have happened once, and yes it was stupid, but it's not like you will be chased down by the police if you walk around with a potato peeler. You cannot seriously believe…

Please stop judging a law on what it's about but instead on its real life consequences. Intent matters little if people/companies are unnecessarily hurt.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#43

Post by jandrese »

feanaro wrote: post #17
vfc1 wrote: post #8

"Only a handful of the largest tech companies have the technical and financial means to operate the sprawling filtering systems that this law demands." The smaller platforms often use under the hood Amazon AWS, Google Cloud or equivalent. Probably the copyright verification is going to be added at that level, and hopefully will be transparent to the platforms built on top of those cloud services. So hopefully, this w…

> So hopefully, this will not impact smaller SaaS companies as much as it might look. ... this would not impact smaller SaaS companies ... This isn't a law yet and I don't think most people want it to become one. That said, I disagree that this isn't a terrible burden for the small guy. Even if it would be trivial to set up, all the other downsides remain and it leads to lock-in in the form of dependence on large com…

> More importantly, why do we want this? What benefits does this bring? I don't see many for the ordinary person.

Maybe it could shift liability? So if someone posts the lyrics to a song and Sony sues them for 50,000 euro could they argue that it is the fault of the ISP for not filtering their post properly?

This is a longshot, but I was trying very hard to think of some way in which this law doesn't screw over individuals for the benefit of large corporations.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#44

Post by lucozade »

jimmaswell wrote: post #6
Ygg2 wrote: post #2

Holy crap on a stick. These new laws are just stupid. I don't generally see eye to eye with libertarians (or whoever advocates for minimal interference of state), but out of touch laws like this are just the worst.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

You are absolutely correct. If you have ever owned a potato peeler or a right-leaning dog, it is imperative that you never set foot in Europe. It's just not worth taking that chance.

I'm sure the poor folk in Europe will manage to struggle on without you and they thank you for your concern.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#45

Post by phonicspree »

Good on Mozilla for taking this on.

There's so many problems with this.

It sets up the infrastructure for control of media. Is an image being shared that is unflattering to the current powers that be? Well, now we have a mandated system in place that can immediately pull that image from the web.

I don't think getting totalitarian control is the goal here, but it is the end result of it.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#46

Post by pjc50 »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #34

Anyone want to speculate on the chances of this getting approved by the European Parliament? Last July they blocked an earlier version and sent it back to the commission. Edit: And as someone living in the UK, I'm also wondering what the implications of this are for brexit[1]. Will the post-brexit interface between the EU and the UK w/r/t copyright be made even more complicated by this, with knock-on effects on digit…

> I'm also wondering what the implications of this are for brexit

We're well into "who knows?" territory, but what would definitely happen is the UK would lose any say over the EU rules. The UK isn't really large enough to be its own market for startups (unlike the EU and US), so we'd mostly end up using companies hosted in one or the other and obliged to follow their rules.

(Safe Harbour is probably a more interesting one to consider!)

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#47

Post by chimeracoder »

klmr wrote: post #19
jimmaswell wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

That’s pure trolling: First off, the Article 13 in question was already rejected once by Parliament and is expected to be repealed against (but it doesn’t hurt to be cautious, good on Mozilla). > GDPR While not uncontroversial, GDPR is generally seen as a good thing by experts. > arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute This didn’t happen. The man was arrested for hate speech, not for gestures his…

> First off, the Article 13 in question was already rejected once by Parliament and is expected to be repealed against

It was rejected rather narrowly (278-318) a few months ago, and only because some of the coalition that voted against it wants to pass a slightly weaker version of the other clauses instead.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#48

Post by jimmaswell »

adrianN wrote: post #10
jimmaswell wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

GDPR is not a crazy law and it's pretty much the opposite of what you'd expect in a '1984' state.

It unnecessarily limits the freedom of anybody who owns a website and doesn't grant any actual freedom to anybody else, almost as if the governments want to be the only ones allowed to collect data.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#49

Post by chimeracoder »

klmr wrote: post #38
jimmaswell wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have intentionally ignored "and its member states." What am I supposed to take away from that quality of life ranking? Yes, the US is below a few EU countries and above others. And it's an average, which means it doesn't mean you can't have a better quality of life in the US than you would in Denmark depending on your individual situation. I for one would be much less happy having to deal with more than d…

> You seem to have intentionally ignored "and its member states." I didn’t, but your comment insinuates that it’s all the same. As for restricted individual freedoms, this betrays a lot about your background. EU contries value equal opportunity over individual freedom for a select few. For minorities and poor people, the EU fares a lot better on individual freedoms than the US does.

> For minorities and poor people, the EU fares a lot better on individual freedoms than the US does

That's not true at all. All you have to do is go to France to see how far Europeans are willing to go to restrict the individual freedoms of minorities.

Of course, you won't get data on just how much those groups are in the minority, because France has also conveniently made it illegal to collect this data, but you don't have to have exact numbers to see that the French government has no problem passing laws that directly curtail minorities' freedoms.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#50

Post by [deleted] »

snarf21 wrote: post #4

In my mind, the most salient point is this one: FACT: The proposed new copyright rules will lead to direct surveillance of users’ activities online.​ This and the recent 5 eyes document to require backdoors for all technology and services are the same. The surveillance state is coming. It is being bought. You are being sold. But don't worry, they are doing this for our own security and safety. No one need watch the w…

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